classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => Identify these bikes! => Topic started by: zappaclassics on November 13, 2007, 01:57:07 AM
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Hi. Could you help me do ID this bike?
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I'm not sure of what the bike is, but I've seen the front forks before: they are identical in layout to those used by Puch around 1912. I'll stick my neck out and say that the forks are either made by Puch, or made by the company that supplied Puch.
The problem is that the bike is obviously much later than that - perhaps early to mid 1920s.
Was there a Puch that looked like this? Or perhaps another Austrian manufacturer?
Best regards
Leon
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Hi Leon,
Thats a real puzzle. Thaks for informations. In fact I think it could be a Puch, maybe pre 1910 (?!?).
The informations comes from the Motorcycle Museum of Vransko, Slovenia - www.muzej-motociklov.com - where they have a Puch "N" 1912 (two existing), Puch "D" 1906 (only one existing) and a Puch Zweizylinder 1904 (the oldest two culinder Puch still existing).
In the fork, left leg, exists the "P" letter, the same showed in the Puch "N" 1912 displayed in the Vransko Museum site.
I have no confirmation, could be wrong.
If you confirm what it is, please let me know.
Attached more pics
Thaks a lot
Mario Zapata
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More pics
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More pics
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More pics
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The front forks looks similar to the Bohmerland.
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Hi Mario,
I think we're agreed that the front fork is Puch, so now it just comes down to identifying the rest of the bike.
With the better photos, it now seems stranger than before!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the motor drives by chain to a countershaft, then on by another chain to the rear wheel. What's on the end of the countershaft? Is that large disk just for the generator to drive from? Or a clutch?
The back wheel looks interesting. Perhaps it has a clutch, or even a 2 speed gear inside? This fits in with the little I know about Puch. There is the remains of a c1912 model R2 here in Australia, which is similar to the Model N but has chain drive and a 2 speed gear in the rear hub. I have also seen an early 1930s Puch spilt single that has a "normal" gearbox, but has its clutch in the back wheel. Obviously Puch liked complicated rear hubs.
And isn't that another sprocket I see on the right side of the rear hub? For a pedal chain? If so, the hub could be pre-WW1.
To me, it is the frame of the bike that looks very strange. What are those lugs on the seat tube? If you look closely, does it look as if it has been altered?
And the motor? I'm not sure. I doubt very much if it is pre-1910, but it could be just pre- or post-WW1. Is it Puch? You might have to find a Puch expert to sort that out!
Here's my guess: I suspect the bike started out as an early Puch, and was heavily modernised (say in the 1920s) to lower the seat height, incorporate the generator, and generally make it look less antique.
Keep searching for info, Mario, you've got something very interesting here!
Leon
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The frame looks like a Nimbus frame, but I'm no expert
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has the frame been adapted to fit a V twin? Behind the rear cylinder, on the down tube, is what looks like the remains of a tube which would have been joined to the lower tube under the tank. Perhaps the lowere tube was shortend, brazed to the upper tube and the down tube bent rearward to give more space for the v Twin motor. Could this frame have been for a single cylinder?
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Many thanks to all of you. I found some books about earlies puchs. As soon as I start to disassemble de bike I´ll be back with news pics and informations.
Merry Christmas and a happy 2008.
Thanks.
Mario Zapata
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Hello Mario, i have some informations about your strange bike.
Could you please contact me via private message or is anyone else in contact with Mr. Mario Zapata?
Thanks for your reply,
br1737
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Hi br1737,
Perhaps you could share your information about the bike with us - I'm certainly interested!
Leon
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the bike is extremely modified, but the base was pre WW1 Puh. Gearbox was added sometime later, and the complete engine housing looks to be something selfmade. Cylinders and heads seem to be original.
br1737
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forks, front of the frame and wheels seem to be quite original,
br1737
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Hi,
could anyone here get me in contact with Mr. Mario Zapata, the owner of this bike, please? Or does anyone know, in which country the bike is located?
I am seriously interested in this bike and i am willing to pay reasonable price.
I am looking forward to any positive reply, best regards,
Br1737
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Hi folks, I've lost my password. So I'm Zappaclassis with another user name. Hi br1737. I'm from Brazil. I come from Garça - São Paulo. Regards.
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Love the friction drive generator!! Very innovative!
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Hi Mario,
Welcome back! Did you find any more information on the Puch? It is one of the most interesting "puzzles" I have come across!
Leon
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Hi Mario,
the friction generator is not original to the bike and was for sure fitted later. The bike originally head no lights or generator or was optionally fitted with acetylen light.
Mario, did you receive my private message? I am still interested in the bike.
br1737
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Hi Mario,
Welcome back! Did you find any more information on the Puch? It is one of the most interesting "puzzles" I have come across!
Leon
Hi Leon, I apologise. I was travelling and only now I could read your message. The PUCH remains in the same situation.
Can you help me to identify this FN. Is this front girdraulic fork original? See pictures
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/5286/dsc03528e.jpg)
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4123/dsc03529k.jpg)
Regards.
Mario Zapata
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yes it is, its not strictly girdraulic though thats for Vincent only.
year 1946 or 1947
Just after this FN did another version of the forks with rubber suspension, and at the rear also.
I had one once, over rough roads the most comfortable ride ever.
Sidevalve or over head 450cc,
A rare bike.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1054219889034406910tAiSra
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Yes this is a seriously weird setup! As yebbut has told us, the year is 1946-47 (although they would have all been called "1947 models" - FN called them "Series XIII", introduced in September 1946) and this one is the 250cc OHV. Guy de Becker's book on FN has a technical article about the front fork, which details why it is so superior to others in smoothing out the ride. If you look at it, it is basically a swinging arm pivotted out in front of the wheel.
Yebbut - it was smooth but did it steer? I'm not sure what killed off the design so quickly, but let's guess steering, or perhaps the consequences of shearing the bolts that held the massive cantilever to the steering head!
Leon
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I'm not sure what killed off the design so quickly,
It looks like one large bump would seriously bend the whole lot upwards, so I'm guessing this somewhat undesirable outcome may limit further sales somewhat ? !!
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You have to remember that FN built bikes not just for flat Flanders but for export to various colonial countries, they were pretty tough bikes with a good reputation.
Probably all those links wore out badly.
My 450 cc sidevalver had the later rubber band suspension which is not as mickey mouse as it sounds,certainly it was very solidly built; combined with a large saddle it was very comfy indeed, a real floating sensation over the potholes.
Helical gear primary drive; Miller electrics on coil ignition; nice and oil tight on casting joints.
Drawbacks were the awkward kickstarter which used to catch your toes, and the clutch was a bugger to get into it needed a very hefty special tool.
I sold mine to Bill Little in the early 90's, needless to say I now wish I hadn't.
I went on a rally once with a Belgian guy riding one like the above, he had the biggest grin on his face as he bobbed up and down on it which is what made me look for one.
I still have some tank Transfers for it somewhere.