classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: brown on January 05, 2011, 08:09:43 AM
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What does term "tickle to start" mean?
What is a thyristor?
Why is the shift lever on the left side on British bikes?
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What does term "tickle to start" mean?
Grab it under the armpits, preferably by surprise....then flood the carb.
What is a thyristor?
A diode which conducts electricity at a given voltage level. Commonly found in household dimmer switches,early colour TVs etc but the bike version is termed a Zener diode and it's non-adjustable (extremely simplistically put).
Why is the shift lever on the left side on British bikes?
Because British bike riders are superior intellectually to the riders of Johnny Foreinger's bikes, and we prefer to show that superiority by being different.
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Why is the shift lever on the left side on British bikes?
Left side?
They were usually on the right side before 1975.
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Some joke answers upto now, but to be serious for a while.
Tickle to start.
Refers to flooding the Carb float chamber using the small button on the top.
What is a thyristor?.
Nothing to do with bikes as far as I know but.
A type of semiconductor device where 4 layers form 3 PN junctions. Thyristors are very efficient devices for switching large AC signals but latch-on until the signal passes through zero making them unsuitable for DC switching.
Why is the shift lever on the left?.
As L A B says it's not it's on the right.
The reason probably is that early hand change bikes had the lever on the right as most people are right handed, it just progressed from there.
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The gear leaver was on the right because we drive on the left.
When turning right at a junction you can select first gear ready to go, the bike will be held on the foot brake leaning to the right with arm out to indicate. You are now ready to turn right. Compare this with moderen bikes next time out . Remember we had no indicators. :D
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Hate to argue with Alex but the gear lever on the right had nothing to do with riding on the left side of the road.
Its very simple. Very early motorcycles had a direct belt drive from the engine to the rear wheel on their left side. As transmissions, chain drive, clutches and gearboxes etc, were developed the drive to the rear wheel stayed on the left and the means of changing gear was installed out of the way on the right hand side. This was practical as hand change was employed in those days and as most people are right handed it suited nicely to have the gear change where it was natural for most people to use it.
When finally the current style of positive stop foot change was invented in the late 1920's it just replaced the right hand side hand gear change that existed before it. It was an option you bought that bolted onto the right hand side of the box where the hand change entered the box. This caused new problems because at that time most bikes had the rear brake on the right hand side as they are now so the lucky rider with the new fangled fancy foot change had both to brake and to change gear with the right foot and do both at the same time. Obviously this didn't work that well so the makers took the cheap way out and just simply transferred the rear brake across to the left hand side.
This arrangement lasted from the 1930's to the late 1960's when it became more and more obvious that British motorcycle manufacturers had to get in line with the rest of the world and have the foot brake back where it was operated by the right foot like it is in every other vehicle on the road. Cars, trucks.buses, you name it, whatever you drive, the right foot works the brakes. To do that the foot gear change had to move across to the left.
So the old British style of controls was just one of the many steps in the development of the modern motorcycle and thats all there is to it. It met the needs of its day but then things moved on.
Cheers,
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. It met the needs of its day but then things moved on.
Thankfully no-one has told my bikes that......because they're still meeting those needs now.. ;)
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ditto
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"It met the needs of its day but then things moved on".................what a pitty i like g/change on the right
where vellocette the first to fit foot change ? some say yes some no , what do you think PS i have a bolt on foot change made by Velose? French i think . on a burman box @ 1930
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I don't know why the fixation with right foot gear change, left foot brake. I have a number of British bikes and only one has this control layout. The different control layout on my other bikes makes no difference to my riding pleasure.
As far as the origins of the foot change go, you first of all have to define what you mean by a foot gear change. Riders bent hand levers to a convenient shape and changed gear with their boot long before Velocette fitted a positive stop foot change to their racers. Up until then foot change could be a hit and miss affair although factories had crafty ways of making it easier on their racers.
The positive stop mechanism had been used in industrial machinery before Velocette had the brilliant idea of adapting it to their gearboxes. They are acknowledged as the first to do so. This mechanism not only ensured all gears could be easily selected but the gear lever always returned to a central position and didn't move up and down according to what gear they were in. It made life much easier for the rider.
It took a few years before foot change was built in to gearboxes. For a few years in the late 20's and early 30's you could buy the change mechanism as a bolt on extra but gearbox makers quickly realised it was much better to build it in as a permanent feature. I don't know the Velose foot change you mention but hand change hung on for much longer than you think so there could possibly have been a steady little market for an add on foot change conversion.
Cheers,
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So, apart from the little LE Velo what else hung onto handchange after 1945?
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Indian Chiefs, Harley Ds of various types, certain Gileras, Lambrettas, Vespas, Norman Nippys, Quicklys, Puchs etc ;)
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a varied list,
I should have said excluding scooters twisty style
A reply to your monet goyon post just gone on here rex
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For British bikes, as well as the LE, the other obvious one with hand change in the postwar years is the James Comet plus every other British lightweight that was powered by the same 1F Villiers it used. What with postwar petrol rationing and everyone trying to get their lives organised after wartime restrictions small economy bikes were in big demand.
Cheers,
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I have only been riding british bikes for 55years and 33d6 has been reading a lot of books, can he please tell me why the side stands are on the left. is it because we drive on the left. What side should I position the hand gear leaver on my 1953 Bown. I know I can put i where i like !!!! but the correct position would be better. Brits still made hand change gears in 1953 ::)
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"What side should I position the hand gear leaver on my 1953 Bown."
On the basis that there is a clutch lever on the left handlebar, the right hand side: you can't operate the clutch and gear lever with one hand, and you don't need to operate the throttle while changing gear - and it means you don't have to cross over.
Early machines with hub gears tended to have the gearchange on the left, as it was rod-operated direct to the hub: but they had a foot clutch, generally (although some had lever operated clutch as per later motorcycles).
Once countershaft gears came in, the accepted pattern evolved to be: left hand - clutch (+ advance/retard of ignition), left foot: rear brake (in the earliest days, a block operating directly on the rear drive belt rim); right hand - throttle and front brake, also gearchange as above - as gearchange mechanisms evolved, it was a natural progression to have the previously-redundant right foot do it.
N
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Hi Guys,.....Brown,who posted the original thread will be really confused now he only asked a simple question and has not been active since,....
are we missing the point here and failing to look at the full picture....being old myself prefered to compete on spanish bikes because it felt natural to change gear right footed and brake left footed=to old to change after starting out with british bikes
Us oap,s need to get the classic sporting forum more active,.....Where are all the UK compeditors the uk is full of ex british champions,....centre champions ect that still compete
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If Brown is getting a good laugh at this he now knows what the term british bikes mean. good fun and lots of banter and never alone. Come back to us Brown , have we answerd your post yet :D
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Further to 33d6's explanation, we need to remember that things evolve with need, and the evolution through the twenties was rapid.
My Model 6A New Imperial was "gentleman's racer" and intended purely for track work, with an alcohol only dog-ear JAP. It had two foot brakes, one on either side, right foot rear, left foot front, leaving the right hand free for gear changes. Even thinking about riding such an unconventional set up gives me the horrors.
And I doubt that we've answered Brownies questions fully and properly.
What is "tickling"? Sure, it is raising the fuel level in the carb to provide a rich mixture at starting, but specifically it is the rapid repeated depressing of the spring loaded "tickler" button that protrudes through the float bowl. We "tickle" until fuel flows either out the float overflow or around the carb air holes, showing that there's lots of fuel about.
JFerg
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Well I think Brown has had all his/her questions answered in full, but I don't expect he/she was in fact asking any serious questions, the questions were asked as a "guest" and they have probably not even been back to look, I suspect we have all been had by a Troll.
I guess some others think so too as some of the early replies have been removed.
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do the Spanish make Bikes 8)
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yes
Montesa
Bultaco
Sanglas
and in the past many others
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Thanks, I raced these engines in my gocart 1964 thought they were :-[ Italian
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Hi,
RE-Ridden left-hand side and right-hand side gear changes and I much prefer the right-foot gear-change, to me a right-handle bar mounted front brake & left-foot rear brake, is when riding a much more balanced proposition , it feels "RIGHT". Yes, we do drive on the Left and this probably had something to do with the lay-out initially too, as presumably the people, who designed Veteran & Vintage machines actually rode-them on the road, the final development would have been a trade-off between practicality and comfort.
Alas, the US of A, probably as a Trade Barrier, out-lawed right-hand gear change mechanisms on Imported bikes in or around 1975 & of course the US of A was an important export market. I would by preference, not consider purchasing a Left-hand change British bike, its not authentic, its not what I prefer as a riding- control mechanism, neither would I prefer the Decimalisation, the Metric system, ( ever wondered why the mathematical ability of the population has plummeted), or the EU.
Cheers
JBW
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one of the reasons for the Brit bike industry changing from right to left was that USA made the sale of left right side foot change illegal, for what reason who knows, but if you look back in history of the USA to the days when they still had Stage coaches all drivers sat on the right hand side, I believe some of the very first cars had drivers on the right, but they changed to the left. and as the biggest market to export to was the States many manufactures simply complied, as for Euro what do expect the French had never forgiven Briton for Waterloo.
From a manufacturing point when we hand pre unit it was easier to have the change on the right hand side, as it would have been messy trying to get a linkage through the primary drive area,( look at the MK 111 Commando set up) with Unit it was easier to do so, though the Brits just keep on with a semi unit for years the classics being the A65 and the Trumpies, both had the pre unit designed engine joined in the casting, so if you really wanted to be bloody minded you could always hack saw them apart and fettle the units to go back to pre unit,
But what the heck does it really matter, I ride both with left and right side gear changes.
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Just to throw a googly at you erudite chaps, I have a BSA 1930 Sloper Deluxe, which has a foot brake pedal on either side, one for the front and obviously one for the back. Did any other models try this combination. Oh yes, it has a hand change too, positioned on the right ;D
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When we walk, we swing our left arm and right leg go in unison, and visa versa, for Balance.
That same unison means our left hand (Clutch) and right foot (gear lever) can also work in unison.
As can our right hand (front brake) left foot (rear brake), common sense really
The side stand is on the left, because we normally park on the left, which is the same reason for the centre stand leverage arm being on the left side.
Who mounts and dismounts a horse on the right, so its the same with bikes and more natural to dismount on the left.
The US bikes do not have the side stand on the right, so lean out into the traffic.
For US folks, you used to drive on the left, so you can research the change over, of which Canada folowed suit.
Blame that annoying little French chap, Napolean that changed Europe over.
Mikey.
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Hi Mikey, very well put, the thread is full of information, I knew mosses had a motor cycle as his triumph was heard throught Egypt. Not sure if Napolean had a bike
::)