classic motorcycle forum
The VintageBike Message Board => The Classic Biker Bar => Topic started by: phil_h on August 25, 2011, 10:19:59 PM
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Anyone got any experience of them ?
The pictures look good, and there seems to be an increasing range available, but I'd like to know what the quality is like.
(I'd like to put a set of girders back onto a '35 velo that has a rear swinger conversion and some horrible lookign teles)
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I have been warned off them suspect castings being the problem mentioned but I will be forced to at least look at them when I find someone making the heavy weight Webb ones for my velo . Unless someone has a pair of the blades. Graham
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Indian made girders have the reputation of being lethal.
Stick with the teles, at least you stay alive,
Your bike would look well daft with fake girders on a S/A rear, why destroy its history? far too much of this sort of stuff has been discarded for the sake of "originality"
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ray daniels has webbs
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'35 is rigid.
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'35 is rigid.
I know that, he knows that, but roger dont read the post ::) ;D ;D
(I'd like to put a set of girders back onto a '35 velo that has a rear swinger conversion and some horrible lookign teles)
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Indian made teles have the reputation of being lethal.
Stick with the teles, at least you stay alive,
Your bike would look well daft with fake girders on a S/A rear, why destroy its history? far too much of this sort of stuff has been discarded for the sake of "originality"
Thanks for that - I cant understand why they bother to make them if they arnt good enough ::)
Anyway - velos with swingers and girders are famous ... havnt you seen any KTTs ?
No prob with looks or handling.
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Indian made teles have the reputation of being lethal.
Stick with the teles, at least you stay alive,
Your bike would look well daft with fake girders on a S/A rear, why destroy its history? far too much of this sort of stuff has been discarded for the sake of "originality"
Im lost, Indian teles have a reputation of being lethal? So how many Royal Enfields have been sold in the UK and does anyone know anyone that has had a front end failure? if you meant Indian Girders are lethal could you point me in the direction of some reports of failures please.
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the only problem ive heard is that some are not bushed , i have heard of none failing as of yet , and given the miles they are likly to do i doubt to many if any will give problems , i have not seen any in the flesh but look forward to seeing a pair , as for the teles they are better than the ones fitted to my bsa , ariel , triumph
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I was hoping to hear from someone or of someone who'd bought some indian-made GIRDERS.
If you remember what the quality of the old indian-made enfields was like or have seen some indian engineering or seen pictures of what indians actually ride around on, then you will understand my reticence.
Just because the latest indian enfields now have some quality control doesnt mean that all indian engineering has quality control.
And another thing ... if they were any good wouldnt more people be marketing them ?
I have seen no reports on them.
That doesnt make me feel comfortable.
</rant>
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So how many Royal Enfields have been sold in the UK and does anyone know anyone that has had a front end failure?
We are talking about repro girders not tele forks.
I understand the girder forks made in India are for Norton 16H and have earnt a bad reputation for failure as believe they are made from castings rather than forgings.
Why do they bother to make them?
Because they think someone will buy them perhaps?
They don't care, just want to rake a few bob in as best they can
Some Indian made tin ware looks to be quite good, quality control is erratic and widely variable
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about a year ago a dealer in birmingham took delivery of 8 bsa a10 tanks from india , they looked good untill he tryed to fit one to a a10 , they turned out to be about 10% larger than a orgional one . unable to get his money back he sold them to a auto jumbler . Any one out there bought one ?
some of the items coming out of india are still hit and miss the head light shells are still poor after about 15 years of manufacture but are still selling
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ray daniels has webbs
Who is Ray Daniels ?
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rebuilds girder forks in birmingham i will try and find his number , rebuilt / restored webbs are about £900 or thats what i payed last time , they are perfect and now on my KSS
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rebuilds girder forks in birmingham i will try and find his number , rebuilt / restored webbs are about £900 or thats what i payed last time , they are perfect and now on my KSS
Thanks - found his email with a web search but he hasnt got anything in just now :(
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All the webbs i know of, aren't bushed .
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are they Indian ? , all the ones i have are , the spindal runs trough them , i now have the adjustable reamers to replace them as they are offten worn by now . take a closer look
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None of my bikes girders were bushed when new, but they are now, thats because over the years they have become f****d. ::) So they were bushed, by Ray Daniels as it happens.
Ray Daniels is to be recommended, if you want some Webbs get on his list; I bet he's got a long list of waiting.
all you'll need then is a rigid frame to match............ ::)
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So how many Royal Enfields have been sold in the UK and does anyone know anyone that has had a front end failure?
We are talking about repro girders not tele forks.
I understand the girder forks made in India are for Norton 16H and have earnt a bad reputation for failure as believe they are made from castings rather than forgings.
Why do they bother to make them?
Because they think someone will buy them perhaps?
They don't care, just want to rake a few bob in as best they can
Some Indian made tin ware looks to be quite good, quality control is erratic and widely variable
We are talking about girders but you wrote teles. Maybe have a re read of your post that I am quoting.
So where is the actual evidence? Who says they are a problem? Who owns a set and has had issues?
Heresay is a dangerous thing and unless we have some actually examples of failures or poor fit then heresay is all we have.
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You are right Matt, :-[ a slip of an old mans keyboard, edited it now.
But if you are so keen to try out these dodgy girders , don't let me stop you.
Bad reports on other forums are enough for me.
Heresay it maybe but I am quite old and have no wish to go just yet.
Perhaps you could do a trial for us? You seem to be quite keen on Indian made kit?
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I think Matt has a point. In all the forums there is only one guy who has actually bought a set and shown detailed photos, and he is just tidying them up and is reporting back as to their final fitment. But now i've forgotten which site! Maybe Britbike forum?
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Girder fork spindles are usually made of EN16 or EN24T steel , Girder fork bushes were originally a high copper-content phosphor-bronze type.
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Might have been one of the military bike forums I read it on.
Can't remember, it was a while ago.
Then again I can't remember what I did the day before yesterday either.
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These forks have been discussed at some length on the WM20 forum and one experienced chap has had a look at a Triumph set. They were dimensionally inaccurate and didn't stand square.
They appear to be made using cast lugs and no seller or supplier is apparently willing or able to advise on the metallurgy of lugs or tubes.
Bearing in mind how stressed the components are and how potentially life-threatening a failure is, I wouldn't want to be the test pilot.
I'd feel happier having a damaged original set re-tubed and repaired.
As far as I know, the only properly constructed girders which have been made recently are the Castles which Jake Robbins made for the Brough club.
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A friend recently had a set apart that had been built for one of the new Brough Superiors he even went so far as to have them photographed inside to check the method and quality of manufacture. They were not made in India I hasten to add rather in main land Europe and they looked great. I shot some video sat on the back at silly speeds and never gave the forks a second thought.
After inspecting them I would be happy to test a set of Indian girders for anyone not brave or daft enough.
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I've trawled some ebay feedback and asked some people the question:
"Girder Forks - I saw you bought some from india - can you tell me what you think of them please, as there doesnt seem to be any info about them anywhere.
regards, phil"
1st reply back:
"interesting question, i own a engineering workshop, iff your handy on the tools buy one, iff not don't."
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We have here in this country all the skills needed to remake girder forks of high quality, indeed probably of superior quality in these days to the originals.
What we do not have however are motorcyclists who prepared to pay right price to the craftsmen for their skill and labour.
This is why there are so many moans about crap pattern spares from abroad. Or even here.
I speak as one who has the financial and metal scars from trying to provide quality British made parts to motorcyclists.
I cant work out why, when there are some people prepared to have made 8ft long girders for some ludicrous un rideable show /chopper bike when others are reluctant to pay out to put them on a decent vintage machine.
As for thoe who would fit repro girders on a modern telefork bike [not an old one with a S/A conversion ] for reasons of "style" the mind boggles.
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At last something substantial !
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=388072&page=1 Post#379348 (http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=388072&page=1 Post#379348)
Definitely castings.
Definitely need plenty of fettling to make them fit.
And they've gone very quiet on that thread since june !
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And more pics here in a guys project:
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=388072&page=1 Post#379348 (http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=388072&page=1 Post#379348)
and that thread mentions another guy who bought some, but sold them on.
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Hmm, that last thread has the following quote:
spoke with a guy today who selled 21 one of those
he got 19 back with cracked and snapped castings
2 of them didn't come back because of luck ...or the projects are not done yet
so the girders are still in a corner instead of being mounted and driven
well he said because of the fact that these are hard to come buy
he tried them
he bought 25 of them
he got 19 back ...3 where to $%^&&ed up when he recieved them ,to sell these would give bad karma he said
the other 3 got sold to 2 too people who didn't came back with it
and the last one to a guy he'sdoing a complete resto for
now because he feels bad he took one of his one org. girders out of one of his own bikes to help the guy out ,he's doing the resto for
so he paid for 25 pieces and he didn't recieve any money back from the "india" seller
because that guy blames the shippers ,salt water fumes on the trip over,and that this shop owner i know wasn't careful enough unwrapping
the girders etc etc > WTF !!!!
so he lost loads of cash and has a bunch of shitty girders that are deadtraps
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and this
No, they're not. We had a couple through Headworks Engineering on customers' bikes. They are not well built. Porosity everywhere. Brittle welds. Crystalized castings. Run screaming in the other direction.
There is a reason they're cheap: They're shit. Put teles on your scoot and have done. Leave girders to the restorers: even though they look agricultural, they are a very well-executed piece of engineering (in other words: expensive to buy & rebuild).
Is it a 'look' you want, or to get out on the road at full noise?!
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There's certainly enough fact in that thread to let you know that what you get will be a complete lottery in terms
of quality and dimensions.
Ho hum.
God save us from cheap $hit.
Now, who do I know who can make a pattern to machine from billet :-\
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Years ago I had a set of standard Webbs remade to go on a Mk 8 KTT velo, this involved some skillful remaking of the the head yoke, when I collected them, they were a beautiful job, ace bit of work, and the guy told me the forgings involved had been shear tested to way beyond safety limits, looking around his well equipped but small workshop I asked how/where that was done.
About 1/2 mile underground was the answer, NCB workshops in a coal mine.
Of course we haven't got any coal mines left have we?
Thanks maggie and the EU
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"shear tested " sounds like bu"""""it to me , but you are happy , ps castings are NOT shear tested
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"forgings" not castings
a forged item is not a cast one.
What was tested to destruction was one sample of the batch he made.
That was over 30 years ago, they are still on the bike, on the track.
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and NCB workshops were not underground!... sparks and methane gas ring any bells?
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I know where it was made Bomber.
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Bump this one.
These Indian-made forks are all over Ebay. Has any ordinary Joe bought some for his bike and been killed/pleased/well fecked off?
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I saw some at Netley.
looked bloody rough.
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I' ve just joined forum and happened to come across this thread. By coincidence, it' s been on my mind for a while to look at building a 'replica' vintage bike and the girder forks were a sticking point.
I run a motorbike engineering business and am an ex aircraft engineer so the thought of building a set is the obvious answer. I'm just in process of researching as much as I can then, once I've got a few jobs out of the way I'll build a set. Seeing as I'm just getting started in classic / twin shock trials, I may build a rigid / girder bike to run in our social events.hat should test it ;D
I' d be greatful for SERIOUS thoughts / feedback.
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sounds great , if you can sorce the tapperd drawn tube for the forks i would be interested