classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: elioti on November 20, 2011, 09:22:26 PM
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Hi, my father used to race profesionaly years ago and built his own race motorbike and engine. After 40 years of storage, he has decided to rebuild it. Some parts were stored in oil, but have gone rusty. He`s looking for some cam buckets and an ignition system. He has one in good condition and needs to match them up with something else, as they are a one off, this may not be easy to match. If i give a picture and dimensions, is anyone able to advise what may be a close fit.? Also the ignition system is needed too. The engine revs to 14,000 rpm, and it is a 250cc four stroke. Would be grateful for any help! Thanks
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40 years ago, anything that revved to 14k rpm would have been a bit special !!
Fire away with the pics,
Some of the rockets these days have tachos redlined at 17k (and you get a warranty), bits may be useable. But understand that something homemade may be unlike anything available. Cheers.
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Will get some pics today and put them on here, thanks!
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heres some pics
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more
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these carbs are apparently smaller than the usual type , were a one off especially made.
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40 years ago, anything that revved to 14k rpm would have been a bit special !!
Fire away with the pics,
Some of the rockets these days have tachos redlined at 17k (and you get a warranty), bits may be useable. But understand that something homemade may be unlike anything available. Cheers.
was infact more than 40 years ago, wasbuilt in the 60`s
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Wow, to begin, that is one fabulous piece of motorcycle racing history.
Firstly, the frame appears to be based on a wideline Norton - if its not actually a genuine Norton featherbed or even a genuine manx featherbed frame. If you can find any numbers on it anywhere may identify it. Look on the left side of the swingarm support. A view of the whole thing could assist with narrowing it down a bit.
Now, that engine. Without seeing it all asembled in the bike, that engine bears quite some resemblance to a 250/4 that was built and raced from the early 1950s. The name that springs to mind was the Ronald Peck Special. Any relation ? Syd Mularney later reportedly had it, and it was then sold on. If its not that bike, it is something closely related ? Any history would be quite interesting.
At some point we are probably going to ask your fathers name....
Potentially, it could be quite valuable, is historically significant in the extreme, and well worth restoring to race-worthy condition.
We assume you are in the UK ?
Got a pic of the rusty bits requiring replacement - or a pic of some clean bits requiring duplicating ?. Potentially a lot of engineering fiirms could do this, but reasonable cost is going to be a factor ? Perhaps someone knows some 4 cylinder specialists for older machines . ? Might see who is suggested before commenting.
Thanks for pics.
Cheers.
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Hi thanks for the replies, heres a picture of a cam bucket, my father needs four of these, as said some have gone rusty. Even something close to the size would be good as where they sit can be modified. The engine is a `one off` Will get some more details later on the bike. Know the gearbox was not homebuilt. I dont know alot about the bike, i know my dad had various bits made especially. He was never wealthy to get all this done, ( told me he used to win races using old tyres when all the other racers had new ones as he didnt have alot of money!) just knew different people to get bits done an was a real enthusiast. Remember him saying he had the four exhausts made at rolls royce by a friend, the first set made were crushed when the boss found out! As said will get some more info cheers!
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Firstly, the frame appears to be based on a wideline Norton - if its not actually a genuine Norton featherbed or even a genuine manx featherbed frame. If you can find any numbers on it anywhere may identify it. Look on the left side of the swingarm support. A view of the whole thing could assist with narrowing it down a bit.
True, the frame layout is based on a featherbed, but this is not a Norton frame. The diameter of the tubing appears to be considerably smaller, and the headstock area is quite different.
The engine is really a work of art. I was aware that there have been several home-brewed in-line fours in the sixties (Dennis Jones springs to mind and Ron Phillips), but I have never heard of this one.
Out with it, "elioti", who is your father? This creation of his is nothing to be ashamed of after all!
Cheers
Andy
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I missed that frame pic somehow, yes it does look like its based on a featherbed but different in detail. Be interesting to see a side on shot though.
Does this look familiar at all ?
This is the Ronald Peck Special, with the man himself aboard.
Said to have been started in the early 1950s, and worked on for quite some years.
What caught my eye was the wheels and brakes, which seem quite similar in type, anyone identify them ? Perhaps this inspired some similar types ?
Someone like Cosworth could likely make those cam buckets, probably at vast expense. Finding someone to do them at home could be a little trickier.
Have asked some people if they can suggest anything similar.
Cheers.
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I knew I had something lying around that could be helpful - and I've found it:
NISSAN Micra cam buckets, 30mm in diameter and 25mm long. And if I remember right these were quite inexpensive, too.
Weight is 25,5grams!
Cheers
Andy
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Hi, thanks for all the replies. The nissan cam bucket may be of help, how thick is it please, is close may do. (thick as in the side wall).My father doesnt want me to mention much about the bike until its put together! He said the frame was not as suggested, and doesnt really want to say much about it! Sorry!Not sure exactly why but guess its up to him. heres another picture of the frame. Do appreciate people trying to help and him not wanting to say much, if people are going to help then he should be more open about it!I think he thinks it may get alot of interest and he prefers to keep it low key. Or prefer to get it going first! Thanks again!
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the NISSAN buckets have an interior diameter of 28mm so are quite thin-walled and cannot be ground on the outside. To fit them into your head the interior diameter of the bronze bushings will have to be enlarged accordingly.
If I remember correctly the buckets come in several grades of bottom thickness to give a means of valve clearance adjustment. If you want I can find out about the sizes available.
Cheers
Andy
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Interesting frame pic, Thanks. Clear from this view it is quite different, but based on a manx type frame. Those wheel types still look very similar, and the hole for where the front brake cable point used to be is still visible, before the brake was changed around.
A note on the Ronald Peck Special notes that it was fitted into a manx style frame sometime after that pic above was taken, still with earles type forks though. These engines still rather look alike - can we see a pic of the clutch side of the engine, that clutch housing is very distinctive.
Cheers.
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I have seen casting of this engine at MR nordas ? weslyan foundry , dav is no longer with us but has this engine ever run ? there was the other cross four engine also from the same person ( which i have ) which i know never ran , is this your farther ? does he remember dave as i have a lot of papper work he may be interested in with reguards the cross four ( excaliber ) sam miller has the rolling chassis
PM is ok
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I have seen casting of this engine at MR nordas ? weslyan foundry
When was this (year) ?
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Suzuki TL1000 buckets are 28mm apparently.
And bigger than most modern stuff... ?
It may be possible to plate it or metalspray it with something if this is the only size available. Or sleeve the bore down.
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Wow this is the most interesting thread in yonks!
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Well it would be if Mr Elioti would at least give a clue as to who his Dad is.... ;)
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the cross engine is 300cc water cooled two stroke and is modular ( bolt two together cross 8 ) this was powerd NOT run also up to 14,000 rpm ( have all the data why 14,000 as i see this figure for the 250 ? ) there was no ignition system at that time which could give the req spark ( Lucas where still working on what was to become there rita ) now there may well be a system but i have no idea who owns the paintant to this engine and i am unwilling to let it go , dav had told me Yamaha did look at one of the engines ( there are two ) as he needed finace but they wanted the rights etc so it ground to a halt . up untill his death he was casting parts for scott , vincent , emc , adller , excelciour , zundap , jap and many more that i dont know of , the last version of excaliber has hub center steering Mr millers is very early and only the wheel design was the same , finance again will ensure that this project never comes to anything unless over seas buys all rights .
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Thanks everyone and sorry for the late reply! My father does not want me to put any more info on here until its done so sorry about that!All i can say is he has featured in the motorcycle news along time ago! Cant say anymore, must respect his wishes.Cheers for all the help!
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Hi its now almost done, found out my father bought the moulds and made another engine, will try upload I PIC. Probably worth insuring, any ideas in value?
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(http://)
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Hi,
Absolutely Stunning 8) 8)
Well done to your Dad
Could we see a photo of the other side please?
John
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We are still going to have to have that discussion about the Ronald Peck Special. (pic shown on P1 of this discussion).
Clearly this is the same engine and bike, with the front forks changed...
Value - will depend on the history - how did your dad get involved ?
Being a race bike, the thoroughness of the resto also will have some bearing.
Its always been said that a race bike is only as good as its last rebuild/rebuilder...
If the history of the bike checks out in all respects, its value could be considerable, to the right collector.
250cc is not quite as sought after as the bigger bangers, but you never know.
Some of the specialist magazines could be quite interested in a story on the bike and its resto.
Hope someone kept some good pics !
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That is lovely.
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Well it would be if Mr Elioti would at least give a clue as to who his Dad is.... ;)
My dad used to race bikes proffesionaly, and had a garage and test bench with a famous singer. This engine was run up, but had an issue with the oil pump, he gave to someone to rectify, and they lost parts, so he gave up on it for 40 years. I've seen a newspaper article on it from years ago , not the same engine as the peck special, but from the same moulds / castings. Will get more pics, and a video as due to be fired up any day soon:)
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Keep it up, this is fascinating.
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Keep it up, this is fascinating.
Will do, thankyou:)
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(http://) My father
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Funny old world. Some blokes (like this) can design and build a bike almost from scratch, and yet others are ignorant enough that they need to go on line and ask what oil or tyre pressures their Indian-built Enfield needs.
Clearly your dad's one talented man.
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very nice keep going , merry Christmas
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very nice keep going , merry Christmas
Thankyou, and you:) Apologies not to reply to some posts, will add more when I can.
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Started at last, video can be seen here:)
https://youtu.be/HfFpvkk0xu4
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Sounds great!
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Its a bit smokey! The timing isnt quite perfect, only done by hand, and theres some corrosion in one of the cylinders unfortunately, but at least is running for now, sounds much nicer in real life:)
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Hi,
What a fantastic bike
I'm surprised there hasn't been more comments on it
John
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There have been several previous threads here on this.
And, what appears to be the same engine and bike appeared in the book
of 250cc british racing motorcycles, along with its history and details.
Not at all clear how these relate to each other...
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interesting, ive just looked that book up on amazon and said was £300? Does anyone have it please, be nice to see a couple pics of the bike thats in it :)
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I posted some pics here from that book in previous discussions here on this.
It shows "Ronald Peck on his 4 cyl Special" and gives a brief history.
Sez it changed hands and was eventually sold off by Syd Mularney in 1965.
Clearly the same engine, in several incarnations of bikes and front forks...
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Some previous discussion on this.
http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=4993
Note link to previous previous discussion too.
And pic of bike in question.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/veloce/846290612/in/set-72157600883373438