classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: johnnyboy-wonder57 on June 04, 2012, 10:42:07 PM
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Where have all the Old bikes gone?
London to Margate run..
Went to Margate for the Meltdown, which has some link to the Ace Cafe, I consider there was 500+ bikes, there was probably less than 15 Jap Classics & I counted in British bikes, not including the Hinkley Triumphs, 2 Goldstars trailered there I believe for effect in front of the stage, a 650 pre-unit BSA Cafe Racer, a Golden Flash, a late '60s Triumph Trophy, 2 Bonnevilles, an Ariel Square 4, no Norton's, Enfield's, or Velocette's, in fact not even a CB750 Honda, no Z650s, less than 3 Z900's.
All in all there was 1 "Rocker" Machine was ridden there, the pre-unit, BSA, outnumbered 60 to 1 by the Scooter Club turn out, in fact there were more Trikes than "Classic" British bikes, I know the TT's are on, but ...... a Featherbed Norton would have stolen the show, anyone care to explain the rarity of British iron on public roads, incidentally this was a run out, not a trailer event, if people can make it on Lambretta's, what's everyone else's excuse....everything getting a little too precious?
JBW
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No, just old and apathetic like me. We've done it all before! You're just a young buck full of enthusiasm!
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I tink Roger hit the nail rather squarely on its bonce there.. besides Margate is a bit more than a ride out for some of us (240 miles)
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It must be a southern thing. I go to a weekly bike meet in the Midlands where there are well over 100 bikes, and over half are old Brit bikes.
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So there were few British classics, even fewer Jap classics(??) but lots of scooters. Maybe most potential riders thought (rightly or wrongly) that it was a meet for scooters, then? Maybe the "Margate" part was a clue, thinking back to the headlines of the Mods and Rockers days?
Never seems to be a shortage of proper classics when the run is advertised as such.
Personally I think I'd far rather see Lambrettas and Vespas than the usual hordes of two and three year old Jap plastic things which now seem to infest every meet and run; talk about a vicarious existence.... ???
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Guys,
No one is expecting people to ride from the provinces!
But London & the South-East must have a lot of British bikes around, in fact when I first came to Kent there was a strong British bike following, especially round Maidstone, Ashford & Canterbury, Ramsgate had its Sprints and Brighton still does. George Brown came down here regularly, Derek Minter was a local hero, in fact if I remember rightly, Hallets in Canterbury still had a Minter "corner" up to the late 70s. Rural Kent was poorer than industrial Lancashire where I grew up, so there were more blokes going to work on bikes here than in cars, up to & including a later social "history" period & the Grass-track racing scene was much bigger in the rural South-East.
The point I am making is that , you & others may have done it before, but then you did it for yourselves, these runs are about less of yourself & a bit more for others, prices may stop people riding their prices of precious metal on the roads, but it also stops people especially the young from getting involved, money is tight, fuel is expensive, legislation is getting ridiculous, would you or I have got involved,30-40 years ago, if a Bantam to restore had been £600 quid instead of £65, or some Great Uncle hadn't told you tales about motorcycling from the dark old days of our glorious past?
Theres NO EXCUSE, when you too old & being sedated in a Nursing home on Complan & Statins & the only thing you can cling onto is a Zimmer frame, then its TOO LATE to pass any kind of legacy on to others, your knowledge, experience & any enthusiasm left just goes to that void, we all pretend isn't there & the World is a less richer place for it!
I know some of you guys do an awful lot of stuff, but perhaps we ALL including me should a little bit more, ride it like you stole it, treat each day like its you last, were appropriate!
DISCLAIMER: This in no way is an instruction for anyone to consider I condone motorcycle theft, or any theft, hands hung out to dry comes to mind!
My wife gave me strict instructions to take photographs especially of any Vincents I saw, I didn't have the heart to tell her no one rides them anymore & to see a Vincent is the twithgher equivalent of seeing a Wallcreeper, "Tichodroma muraria" in our Sceptered Isles, or finding an Observer's book in a charity shop @ a reasonable price!
Cheers
JBW
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Errata:
For twithgher read Twitcher, & there's a do missing from "we ALL including me should DO a little bit more,
Rex
80-83% Modern Japanese; last 15 years;
1-2% Old Jap;
10% Harley Davidson;
5% to10% others including a Reliant-engined Trike! 2 BMW's & maybe 5 or 6 Italian bikes.
The Reliant engine makes the Imp engine look space-age!
Cheers
JBW
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Or maybe riders of older stuff like me, rigid Matchless, vintage Sunbeam, other old tat just do not want to get involved in some blast out in company with a lot of poseurs and born agains?
Last time I went on one of these runs, allegedly for "vintage and post vintage bikes, it was nearly all late 60s 70s twins, all trying to out do each other, no pleasure in that on an old un, I quit the run after about half an hour it was too risky and just not my thing.
As for the trike/ beer gut/tattos/beard/rat bike fad, which I fail to understand at all, if you had turned up on one of those at the Ace Cafe in its heyday you'd have been laughed off the forecourt.
I don't think its any pleasure, even on say a decent late T120 to try to keep up with such a crew as you mention. Not to mention the likelihood of doing harm to your valued machine.
As for having anything to do with the "Ace cafe" commercial venture, I'd rather not thanks.
and lastly, for the youth thing, I don't want to know, they can go to hell on their own hand carts. (or chopper bobber trikes how I loathe the custom bike thing) >:(
Just my 2d worth you are welcome to disagree.
I rather prefer to tootle around on my own choice of route, at my own speed.
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Blimey, you don't sit on the fence, do you? ;D
Mostly agree with your sentiments though. Some poor old B31 stripped of it's mudguards or a shi*tty matt black CB750 with fender struts I can well do without, thanks.
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I reserve the right to be a bigoted grumpy old git. ;)
what I really resent about these newer bikes is that they wake me up as they blast past me.........
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Hi there. Been following this thread and up here in NE England we had quite a number of old bike shows but over the last 4-5 years they seem to have died out and they were well attended. I did here of a bike meet that meets twice a week Wednesday and Sunday at the Washington wild fowl car park from 5.30 till 8.30, so last Sunday I went along, there were at least a hundred bikes there including some weird trikes but mine was the only old British bike there, maybe I went on a bad night so I stayed for about an hour then went home. I may go again on aWednesday night. Mind you when I left and was riding along the Washinton Highway there was 2 bikes that passed me I was doing about 55-60mph and they passed me as though I was standing still gave me quite a shock engines were screaming don't know what revs but must have been quite high. Did get a brief wave from them though.
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Did get a brief wave from them though.
not waving but drowning,? going too fast to get his hand back on the bars.
I have a vintage Sunbeam, when flat out the flies get a chance to move out the way.
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I still ride of course, but fussy as to whereto! (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg3/takka22/000_0689.jpg)
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if its british you want then get to Banbury on @ the 17th (i think ) this month, the show is ok but i prefer sunrise hill for about 2 hours mid day , i will never do epsom/brighton again as this route is a joke for my 1912 humber and mines one of the more modern machines on the run . The british bike seen does seam to be on the decline unless its bobbed , i see more of these about than standard , they are cheep to build so owners do appear to use them more . I have some myself and none o me a fortune but would if i built them back to standard , ariel 500 , bb34 gs , 500 triumph , 350 triumph , i make it a rule never to cut or alter the frames , im just looking at a KSS incomplette project i have , the lines of the frame are a work of art and would make a great bobber maybe next year
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No I won't take the bait ::)
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Guys,
Its good to let it all go.....the point is and I know I was being Devil's advocate but, British bikes are disappearing off the road, the second point I would make is how unfriendly its all getting too, it probably always has been a little of the one-upmanship... but people complain about the same things, how judgemental & how uptight its all becoming, when I was a member of the BSA Owners Club it didn't matter what you had, you usually progressed through various mounts to approval from the club.
Interestingly enough on a prog' "The Bike Show" before the TT Highlights, the guy presenting it said about all the Custom firms going bust in the USA, some of them previously turning over huge sums of money, surely in the 60s there was resentment to Cafe Racers, for me handling was paramount so a customised bike was a no-no, if it had extended forks or a rigid frame.
Actually, at said event, two Bonneville's were parked together, one a Hinkley version & the other a Meriden and the Meriden version looks sweetn'light in comparison to the cumbersome & ugly pretender, why couldn't they have cast the engine casings in a more aesthetically pleasing shape?
Keep riding, keep smiling take it easy.....I will post some shots when I have downloaded them!
Cheers
JBW
Sometimes @ slightly different events, it makes someone's day to see an old Brit bike, just remember what happiness you can give to others as you tootle round & park up something with a Made in England sticker on it, or should I say "Hand-made" , you really are a lucky bunch, its not the same seeing things in museums
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how true , but really the best handeling bikes in the 60s where custom home built , some good some bad , the triumphs i have from the 60s are not good handeling bikes (or brakes) this includes the TLS 68/70 models , the best handeling standard triumphs i have ever rode are the OIF tigers bonnys etc but some classic bike members look down on these models , why? managed to load a pic of me bb34 not to many miles away from standard but rough enough to use and abuse with out worry
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Wetdog,
I suppose each one of us, thinks about Custom bikes differently, Custom bikes to me were Choppers and the like, more arty-farty straight line "look at me stuff", Triton's e.t.c. were were customised specials for hard riding twisty roads, however, an American once informed me, that in Aussieland, South Africa and the USA you could ride hundreds of miles, with only a few corners, so I guess clip-ons & rear-sets would be a little stupid in these circumstances, so that's why the Harley cruiser thing developed, laid back & comfy sort of thing!
My BMW K75 has Sport/ace type bars as standard, sometimes a little uncomfortable, but it made it look or so more mean & purposeful so I never changed them!
Oh & I was once just accelerating through the 80s and a Jap' rocketship whizzed past me like I was standing still, he was so close and it sounded like a mad chainsaw, it made me jump I nearly abandoned ship, I bet he loved it and by the time I hit the roundabout a mile up the road he was gone & I was supposed to have 75 little horses running under me somewhere, I guess some of them must have been out grazing, having said that the K75 was a bulky beast, it did piss me off for a few minutes though * I wondered whether a change of underwear was called for, I consoled myself that my engine was still running sweet @ 15 years old & his who knows, but I can safely bet......it won't last that long!
Cheers
JBW
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i agree and as it just so happens a K100 is my everyday bike , has done well over 160,000 miles and going strong , i have only ever changed the oil ? make so you wonder why ive so many british (about 40) , but the truth is i like working on them more than riding them , i veiw them as almost works of art , as all trips over 100 miles im on the BM . PS ive cut the rear of the frame off (now single seat) and fitted it with T bars and it looks the Bol****cks in matt green , cost me £300 over 12 years ago and still worth about the same today so not a good investment but a very very good bike , id say a modern day Panther
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I don't think British bikes are disappearing off the road, I think they are just keeping out the way. Lets face it todays A roads are not a nice place for an older machine, so maybe like me they sneak around the side roads. Especially on high days and holidays when its quiet.
As for the K100's I am envious you all can afford to run one of them. how much for a rear tyre? 35 mpg?
I can't even pick one of them up, I once had a job delivering contract hire Police BMWs and Pan Euros to various police forces, the weight of them is staggering.
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mine does more than 35mpg ( just i ride it slow i guess ) tyres are cheap and the last trye i bought came with the wheel £30 , and mines stripped to the bare bones so not that heavy , as standard they are heavy ugly bike i think , but the engine is very nice , mine is a ex police machine it lives outside 24/7 so is always there to jump on and to my amazment just keeps on going , smokes if left on its side stand but thats all i can fault
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Here fishy fishy.... ;)
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Bad Rex
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K75S,
I never got below 54mpg, plus rear tyre Continental around £75 , its only a 130/90 V17, having said that big whopping rear wheels are out, thankfully the thinner stuff is making a comeback, I always thought big rear tyres looked crap anyway!
Rural Kent & I still see almost no British bikes!
Cheers
JBW
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I have to agree about the A roads comment. My BSA Empire Star (a pre-war sporty/enthusiasts bike) appears painfully slow on any decent road, so I can only pity those on 250s or side valves.
Don't think there's any shortage of British bikes either, just that those who have them choose carefully the events they attend; I know I do, and that's to (hopefully) escape the hordes of Jap-riding wannabes who now seem to clog up so many events. I fully appreciate that the little Jap 125 can run rings around my bikes, but I don't wish to see him and his mates parked up diluting the experience for those on older bikes.
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I agree about the more modern bikes clogging up events, my biggest complaint is the riders of brand new Harleys,usually full dress who bring their bikes along to our local shows, then park them amongst the real vintage era stuff and stand there next to the bike preening themselves, and never moving away from the bike all day.
It gets worse when they insist on riding around the arena along with the vintage bikes, I keep trying to edge them onto a big cowpat to see if they'll fall off, no luck yet.
Its only the H-D crew that do it, never the Jap lookalikes, or big Jap or german cruisers, just that type of H-D.
I wonder why?
Probably to avoid the gate entry fee.
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had some HOG members trying to enter there harlys in a custom show we had , custom because they had bought every item that had "live to ride , ride to live " cast in it , what a bunch of Tos***rs they where to .
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Hmm,
Surely a modern Harley V twin is a modern classic because of its long line of heritage? OK, it doesn't fit in to the classic definition of a "Classic", but its on two wheels and is help keeping motorcycling alive!
Are you telling me after riding German, Japanese & British stuff that if I buy a Harley, I would suddenly get a 16 penis, somewhere!
Seems to me we should have "Live & Let Live" fixed to our machines! People are proud of their machines, sometimes for the right and sometime the wrong reasons. Vincent's were more go than show, hand-built, but it didn't keep them in business, Harley's are the opposite, generally, so of course they are going to turn up @ stated show events.
Having said that there's a boom @ the moment putting Harley "suped up" Sportster engines in Featherbed frames, wonder where this fits in the scheme of things?
Harley learned from Honda, before they went under....maybe our industry didn't...a fellow put forward a theory that it was our Victorian heritage that caused our industries to collapse, we just couldn't move into the 20th century when we needed too!
Cheers
JBW
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Its quite funny I agree with both points of view to a certain degree, my love of motorbikes is very ecclectic. I can fully understand the point of Harleys and classic bike shows, why enter your cat in a dog show? but then again I have been to small shows and they have only been too happy to let the 'tarts handbag' fraternity stand their bikes in the line up. I have seen street fighters as they are known entered into the 'special' catagory at classic bike shows too... but that depends on your definition of "Special".
What I don't like is eliteism... you know the type of behaviour occasionally exhibited by rare marque owners... or more to the point expensive model owners. Quite a few of these are not really bikers and only have their machine to show what wealth they have. To me this is totally pointless.
Its quite funny that at large bike meetings modern bikes are falling into a few separate catagories, the Harley and Harley wannabe group is one, the Power Rangers are another, the 'stop me and buy one' crew (Goldwing owners club) are another and more recently the tourers who want to look like off roaders are an ever growing group. The groups rarely interact and look down on the other groups like they shouldn't be allowed on the road - Madness!
I must admit to a degree of dislike to all types of scooter, but my excuse is this is not nature but nurture, I have never riden one, nor do I have the urge to, but I understand the importance of them in modern motorcycling and their role in recruiting the all too few youngsters into the biking world at the moment.
We are all bikers... what ever your taste and the crucial thing is that we stick together as the rest of the world seems to be on a downer about us and want to change things they don't really understand about the culture of motorbikes and motorbikers!
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We are all bikers
I'm not I'm a motorcyclist.
cue same old discussion, well, its foul outside :(
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A motorcyclist wears a Belstaff and huge gauntlets, while a biker is some dork with a fat gut, too much facial hair, and calls everyone "dude" or "bro".
I guess not many would willingly fit into either of those inanely prejudiced categories... ;)
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Rex,
You couldn't resist could you, Bro!
This post was a comment on a situation re British bikes, but its turned into a lets slag everybody off jobbie, who's different to whatever we are!
As to owners appearance, this is an ephemeral quality! Incidentally, have you seen the price of decent Gauntlets & a Belstaff Jacket, what about a Barbour then & Godfrey's Goldtop boots?
Come to think of it, wasn't the Hell's Angels formed by ex-Servicemen?
So, just to show I not a spoil-sport I'll go one further!
British Bike Owner Taxonomic Classifications
Triumph Owners: Coiffered Union Members/ Rattle merchants;
Norton Owners: Nobody does it better, types!
Royal Enfield Owners: Silicon fiends/ Engine strippers;
Vincent Owners: Fast, silent types/Nice Chaps/Merchant Bankers/Batman fans;Velocette Owners: "I want to be alone" types/I know something you don't;
BSA Owners, Spam, Egg & Chips fans;
Sunbeam Owners: Tootling types/ Lathe in the workshop;
Ariel Square 4 & 4 strokes generally, Owners: There is but one God & we ride it!
2- Stroke types: Furtive & resentful;
Triton Owners: DA & sideburns, Decadent & Deluded;
Featherbed Specialists Builders; Merlin types, there is one true "Art" & we know how to do it;
Matchless & AJS Owners: Dyed in the wool types, pipe, slippers and a Stormcoat;
Douglas Owners: Laconic, Individualistic & proud;
Le Velocette: Uses an infuser in the Tea pot/ Just don't care any more about anything!
Bantam Owners: Cocky & cheerful;
Tiger Cub Owners: If only types;
Greeves Owners: Outdoor types;
Francis Barnett Owners; Chatty;
James Owners: Not much to say;
Norman Owners: Derri-boots & polish;
Panther Owners: Mushy peas &Yorkshire Terriers in the Side-Car, they don't often carry a pillion;
Vintage & Veteran Types: Handlebar moustache/We know better!
Norton Commando Owners: Green Berets & Confused!
BSA Rocket Three Owners: Captain Scarlet types/ Fine weather protagonists/ Like Pop music;
Triumph trident Owners: Speedy, oil barons/ Listen to their engines with an ear trumpet;RE Constellation Owners: Star Gazers, like Classical music
All others unknown;
Anon
But how much truth is there in these statements & what do their owners look like?
Cheers
JBW
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quite odd i guess as i am listed 12 times
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Wetdog.
You must have a complex personality!
JBW
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I think that list is rather funny and in some cases not too far from the truth. ;D