classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => European and Other Bikes => Topic started by: statik on November 15, 2012, 04:44:41 PM
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I'm picking up my new Moto Guzzi single tomorrow, it's in working order but well used condition. Anything I should look out for on these bikes?
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The previous owner sent me a couple of photos.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/Moto_Guzzi_Super_Alce_500_1.jpg)
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I'm picking up my new Moto Guzzi single tomorrow, it's in working order but well used condition. Anything I should look out for on these bikes?
That you don't wear it out from enjoying riding it ?!!
I think I read somewhere that the idle speed could be set down to as low as 200 rpm on these - but that is too low to ensure enough oil is where it should be.
Enjoy !
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I got it home yesterday and it's in the shed already. I watched a video on youtube and one was ticking over so slow you could almost count the strokes. This is nothing like anything I've had before, which is why I got it I suppose.
I need to find a supplier for parts, the kickstart ratchet has worn out and some idiot has chromed the front hub. The front brake is just for decoration it certainly doesn't stop the bike. It has a layer of chrome on the friction surface.
I looked through the handbook (Italian) and it seems the bike splits in two parts by removing three bolts and a few pipes and cables. From under the seat and bottom of the front down-tubes. The rear suspension is under the engine which stays together in the back half. Makes it really easy to work on.
Not sure what to do with it. My idea was to check all the bearings and seals, get it mechanically sound and not much else. I like the used look but I will deal with some of the dents.
The wiring is a mess so I'll replace that myself and finish it off with a layer of cotton tape.
It has to be a record for me this year, only two bikes to finish and the whole winter to do it.
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Been through the lists of suppliers but no luck. Need a M-8111 Gear free for starter, it's the ratchet gear that runs on the kick start quadrant.
Been through Italian and German Ebay, and Moto Guzzi club but since Piaggio took over Moto Guzzi most of the history has been lost.
Any ideas?
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Not too many years ago a friend here in Australia bought a brand new set of forks (NOS) for a mid-1920s Guzzi from... the Moto Guzzi factory!
Worth a try?
Leon
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Moto Guzzi has been taken over by Piaggio so a lot of the history has been lost. I'm doing OK at the moment, I found a new friend in North Wales who has some old Guzzi's. He put me on to a few leads, one is a shop in England, another in Mandello Italy and one in the USA who has all the parts I want but is very expensive. There is also a private collector who sells some of his own stock. It's not easy but that's part of the fun of owning these bikes. I'm sure we have all been in this situation at some time.
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The kickstart ratchet has worn out, I found another one in the USA but after post, duty, VAT and Post Office fees it's over £300. I can get one made for less in England. It's the toothed part and the piece next to it behind the clutch springs.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/SNV31092.jpg)
A bit of research has found this is an army bike, confirmed when I cleaned up the brake back plate I found the green paint.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/SNV31091.jpg)
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Been translating an old manual for this bike, mostly to identify left hand threads. Some are going OK. This is the engine lubrication.
Lubrication of the engine-gearbox unit
In this type of engine, the oil has not only the function of lubrication, but also has the important function of cooling the
engine, making the office water engine water circulation. A gear pump sucks the oil from the tank
and injects it into the motor shaft from the part of the distribution. The oil then runs through the internal ducts of the motor shaft and
out of the holes drilled in it under the big end. After lubrificalo latter, the oil passing through the rollers of the
bearing of the connecting rod head, comes out to the sides of this, and, by centrifugal force, comes projected on the plug, on the piston and on
the cylinder walls as well as on the transmission gears, lubricating and cooling ciuesti organs. The oil sovrabondante,
using a special elastic band applied to the piston, is driven back into the crankcase and collects in the bottom of this. From here,
by means of a pump d vane coaxial with the first pump, the oil is sucked and pushed into the reservoir.
It is noted that the direction of rotation of the motor, contrary cilla direction of travel, combined with the horizont al arrangement
the cylinder favors the perfect lubrication of the cylinder itself, since the oil droplets are, by centrifugal force
proietate on top of cilindio, whence the oil drops by gravity to also lubricate the lower part.
I actually think it's not bad for a first attempt.
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Been translating an old manual for this bike, mostly to identify left hand threads. Some are going OK. This is the engine lubrication.
I actually think it's not bad for a first attempt.
Its readable, and mostly understandable - with a little technical knowledge to fill/guess the gaps and odd bits.
There is a way somewhere/somehow so that technical terms are added to its vocabulary ? Avoids things like water cooled, elastic bands, etc.
Imagine what translating something FROM technical english would be like, without a motorcycle specific technical dictionary to assist ??!!
And some of those longspecialwordsingerman are a laff to try and translate...
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There are some really good ones but I couldn't find them when I wrote that post, spark plug came back as Magic Candle with one translator. I really like this bike and I'm having a lot of fun with it. The research is going well and I know quite a lot about it now. I would like to find out more about the previous owners or the army history.
I'm in the process of getting a UK V5 log book at the moment and that is quite funny. DVLA have some strange ideas but when you get your head round the way they talk they are easily confused.
Now HM Revenue and Customs are getting involved and it's getting silly. Can't wait to tell them I'm not the importer, that will add a couple of weeks to the process.
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Still not decided on the colour scheme. I don't fancy an army bike but would like a sage green with gold pinstripes. These bikes are generally one colour with stripes and no black parts. I may keep it red which is the wife's choice but I am getting rid of the chrome on the tank. Any ideas?
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It's funny how life works sometimes. I got a phone call from a local factory last night who needed their gas space heaters serviced urgently. The gas certificates had run out so being about five miles from my house I did it all today. It was an engineering company established a long time ago with lots of wonderful old equipment like Fly-presses and furnaces. They kept things up to date too with the latest punching machines and lathes. Like all British industry they are having a hard time so we decided on a plan to sort out my bill. They have a paint and powder coating department with all the right colors. What a stroke of luck.
If anyone wants their phone number PM me, they are in the Crayford, Kent area.
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Got a few reply's back now and spare parts are very rare. Even tried Agostini Mandello and a couple of other shops in Italy but no luck. There is a place in America which has a stock so I'll go to them, They are very expensive and there is import duty to pay.
I can get some secondhand parts but who's to know what condition their in. Could be worse than mine.
Had a few suggestions on the colour and so far I like BRG (British Racing Green). Gold or cream pinstripe alongside a red pinstripe.
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Classic guzzis were red with chrome tanks, anything else is going to be a backward step ? Perhaps better shaped panelling of red on the tank though.
The army superalces were heading towards butt ugly in mil green, with that split twin muffler. Purposeful, but still ugly, beauty of line obviously didn't come into it.
And if your wife likes it red, we'd say thats a very broad hint !!?!!
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The chrome is hopeless and peeling off everywhere, except the inside the front brake. Why would anyone chrome inside there? There was never any chrome on this bike anyway. I don't want to copy another model and unless I get an exact match for the Moto Guzzi red or it won't look right.
I got the registration number and tax disc today. After the saga I went through with DVLA the past two weeks I think I may keep it red just so I don't have to change the log book again. The registration number now ends with YUK, about right.
The bike splits int two pieces by taking out three bolts, a few pipes and some wiring so really easy to work on but can I get the fuel tank off. Can I ***k. I think it's held on with glue.
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The chrome is hopeless and peeling off everywhere,
Thats a bit different then - but it does look good in red.
Red guzzis seem to vary greatly over the years in hue and shade - if you say it was a tuesday (martedi) color, none can disagree with that ??
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I think you're right red is the way to go but I have two red bikes already.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/DR%2016-09-11/SNV30332.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Triumph%2005-06-05/Triumph19.jpg)
I can live with it. I'll go for Wednesday shade of red with a bit of pinstripe in cream and maybe replace that chrome on the tank with cream too. (Blood and custard)
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What would you say if I told you both those red bikes cost less than £2000.00 for the pair.
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Had a bit of spare time today so took my Dremel with a grinding disc to the worn out ratchet teeth on the kick start gear. It did the job and the kick start works OK. Put some fresh fuel in the tank and checked the oil. Had a spark at the plug so set up a camera and kicked it over. It went first time, now I know a lot of people say that but it really was. It fires up easy so I was able to check the generator and oil feed and that sort of thing.
Got a list of things to do before thinking about paint. Brake linings, new clutch plates, still need a new kick start gear set, pull out the dent from the tank and general check of everything. I hope to take it for a short test ride before Christmas day so must get the chrome out of the front brake before that. Got the V5 through today so all legal now too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUSwKMHcAYE
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Guzzi singles came in a range of colours. These days you only ever see red ones, and that's evolved into a belief that they all were that colour. There were a variety of maroons and browns, and a dark blue. In the immediate post-war period I suspect they used whatever they either had or could get cheap. The V8, of course, was a sage-ish green. This was not a colour as such, merely a case that in order to minimise weight it was only ever primed; but it's become accepted as a "Guzzi colour.
Paint it whatever you like; it's your bike. Sage-ish green with gold lines sounds good to me, and you can claim it as the factory race team colours......
JFerg
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I will decide later about the colour, I do like the red but the problem is other owners. If the shade isn't exactly right the purists go into a long rant about it. I thought if I went for a non standard paint job it would solve the problem. I don't have a green bike in my collection but after dealing with the DVLA recently I may just go with the log book which is red.
I did work in a paint shop a few days ago but their colour range is very limited, the red they use is raspberry. That would be way out.
I should be sleeping today after working all night but it's the day my next door neighbour is having cavity wall insulation. So that's out. I'll play with the bike instead.
A green one for sale at the moment.
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I'm interested to get some views on what to do with this bike. I considered all the colour options and have a couple of offers to shot blast and paint it by some of my customers. It's quite tatty, the chrome is bad, the paint is bad, the rims are bad but mechanically it's very good. Everything works and I sorted out the brakes. It goes and stops.
Do I restore it to "like new" condition, paint, chrome the whole thing over the next couple of years?
Do I leave it as it is with all the battle scars and it's history intact then ride and repair it as I go?
Do I leave it as it is and just use and maintain it?
The number plates are coming on Thursday so once their fitted I can take it out for a ride.
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Statik, remember that this is a motorcycle. It was designed and intended by its maker to be ridden. If it's mechanically sound, and safe, then just use it. Look after it, maintain and service it, but use it as intended. We don't see enough un-restored and properly used bikes these days, but they have many advantages over a fresh restoration. Apart from the established mechanical harmony which makes them more reliable than a fresh rebuild, a less than gleaming bike can be used in the wet, in the dirt and anywhere else with much less concern than a shiny one. Consequently the fun potential is far greater.
It's also soooo much cheaper, and the fun is far more immediate. The object of the game is to have as much fun as you can get away with, so go for it.
cheers,
Ferg
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Yes JFerg I agree, last year I went to the Manx GP on and unrestored oily rag 1950 Norton ES2. I go every year on this bike and ride it hail, rain, snow or shine. Last year I was approached by a fellow who was riding an unrestored Beeza M21 in Ramsay and asked if I would join SPURM.... apparently it's the Society for the Preservation of UnRestored Motorcycles, a Manx group.
I have umpteen restored bikes that only get ridden on high days and holidays, but my ES2 gets out all the time, it's the bike I have most fun on primarily because I know it's not going to get spoiled.
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Thanks, Bomber.
I ride an original and unrestored pre-war Panther 600 with the same delight. Now I'm going to google "spurm", it sounds like my kind of bunch.
cheers,
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dito .panther 1932 ish every day hack . very underated machine
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I agree with all of you on that. My Sunbeam is a "user" in good condition but...............shall I say the history is intact. I don't own a fully restored bike they all get used, washed with washing up liquid and dried off. That's it. I take your advise and ride it as it is.
Love those Panthers lads, one was on my list when I got the Moto Guzzi. I had two in the past model 100's. I don't remember much about the first one it was my daily hack one winter so I could keep my Norton Commando in the garage. I should think the Panther's worth more than the Norton I was protecting these days.
A few will cringe now but I turned one into a 70's style Chopper painted it lime green metallic, long forks, lowered back end and rode it all over Europe, it was in the 70's so the fashion of the time (my back still hurts from that). Again I don't remember too many details, it was the 70's after all and I was lucky to remember my name after that.
Just in the Christmas spirit one my nephew's kids saw it the other day and told his dad. "Uncle Stu has Santas bike in his workshop." Made me laugh.
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Not very happy today all was going well and the number plates arrived. They look great Framptons did a nice job I recommend them. I was just cleaning bits and pieces and greasing up the forks and I found a crack in the bottom spring bracket. Don't know the exact name for the part but I made up a few new ones. Now I have to go over the rest of the bike to make sure the thick layer of paint isn't hiding more cracks. Not very happy because I was going to ride it for the first time tomorrow.
I did check the weather but found it inconclusive (joke).
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Now I know why the previous owner sold the bike so cheap. I spent the entire evening looking over the bike and it's OK. The bit that's gone is quite lethal but it's made from mild steel, manufactured into a support for the bottom of the spring. But I can fix it.
I'm going to weld the pieces back in place then dress them to shape. Drill out the two 8mm holes though a template. Then cook in a controlled fire until cherry red. Quench in the slurry of Diesel engine motor oil from cherry red and cook again until hot. Then possible case harden in more carbon. Maybe not. Got to research it.
That should temper the metal to remove the stress of the last 57 years and we start all over again. Hopefully.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/IMG_0170.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/IMG_0172.jpg)
What do you think? Am I on the right track or should I make a new part form scratch?
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I doubt that this piece was ever hardened, other than by work hardening. Patch weld it back to shape and then plate it for a bit extra strength.
JFerg
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Clarification!! By "plate" I meant weld another piece of steel across the thing to beef up the whole assembly and increase the thickness at the ends. A piece of eighth steel plate cut to size for example.
I didn't mean shiny chrome!
JFerg
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Was just about to question this 'plate', but you answered that.
Indeed, a strap of steel across the 'back' (where we can't see) to strengthen it, and some longer bolts (?), and bobs your uncle. (Where did that expression come from ?). Looks thin enough its surprising it lasted this long - or did the spares dept do a thriving business in them...
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http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/bobs-your-uncle.html (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/bobs-your-uncle.html)
But then again... Fanny is your aunt!
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I worked a lot with Italian industrial machines and mostly the metal they produce is poor quality. A piece of their steel can vary inch by inch. I was bending some bar to make brackets and every so often it would snap, there was hard and soft sections. Some parts I couldn't drill and some was like butter.
On the back of this piece there's a web welded on (no not a spider web) to strengthen it at the center of the spring so quite awkward to modify. I may just make a new piece from fresh steel.
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The back of the piece is strengthened by a web so I'm limited. I don't want to weld anything underneath because that will lift the bottom of the spring, all work has to be done on top then all I need to do is fit longer bolts for the extra thickness. I may cut out the bad bits right out and weld in new 1/8" steel flat bar. I will temper it after.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/IMG_0177.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/IMG_0181.jpg)
Rubbish Italian steel.
JFerg, "plate" meant something else when I was at school and it wasn't chrome either ::) ::) ::)
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This is where the part fits into the forks. It spans the legs and actions on the bottom of the spring. If I weld anything underneath it will change the spring position. That could change the suspension geometry a bit. Look at the picture and you'll see what I mean, the end is behind the damper wing nut.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/Brokenbit.jpg)
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Lovely pictures, Statik, an easy thousand words in each.
Given that it's taken 60 years of use to get to this stage, you could fairly confidently rebuild in the same gauge, but I'd look at putting a plate across the underneath, taking back either side of the rib. Sure, this will take up some of the pre-load in the spring, but that's all it will do. Hypothetically this will change the geometry, negligibly, but not in practice. In practice the whole thing is completely dynamic at all times, and even a quarter inch would be negligible; and you can bet that over its 60 years the spring has sagged more than that anyway. To properly change the geometry you need to start messing with link lengths, and that's not happening.
Ahhh, Statik, I see you went to "one of those" schools.....
JFerg
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Welded it up today, what a cow of a job. Tried to Arc weld it with all kinds of rod at various amps and the 1/8" flat wouldn't take to the Italian steel. Ground it out three times and in the end it was getting silly. We went and got some gas for the TIG and that did it. Trouble is we had so many goes at it things were getting messy. Anyway it's done now and all I have to do is drill fresh 8mm holes and it can go back on.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/IMG_0185.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/IMG_0187.jpg)
See what I mean scruffy but the old saying goes. "A coat of paint hides a multitude of sins"......(Bomber). ;D
I'll make a new part next year out of flat bar and play with the thickness to see if the geometry changes at all. I think your right JFerg it's so small it won't matter. My mate has a plasma cutter so he does some nice shapes. It's not a hard thing to make.
Anyway I hope some are enjoying my efforts on this project and would like to see some of you in the flesh in the new year, Oakdene maybe. From me and the broken Guzzi we wish you a good Christmas.
Stuart.
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Good result, Statik. A proper fix.
Have a great Christmas etc.
cheers,
JFerg
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Christmas day morning and the family are round. Best place for me is the workshop fitting the suspension part, they were only moaning about the weather and repeats on the TV anyway.
I didn't have any red paint so I did it black for now and left it in the airing cupboard over night to harden. It went straight in and while I was looking for a couple of stainless steel 8mm bolts I found an aerosol of red. Isn't that normal, never mind.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/DSC00002.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn233/statikly/Moto%20Guzzi/DSC00004.jpg)
I wanted to ride it today but the weather is against me, thunderstorms and hailstones isn't good to ride a bike with heel operated back brake and heel-and-toe gears for the first time. Maybe tomorrow.
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Just a quick update, I rode it Boxing day but the clutch slipped like mad. There was an oil circulation problem and the cylinder got quite hot. I found the oil to be very thick so I drained it out. That took all day to empty so when I said thick I meant treacle, my guess it's why the clutch slipped.
Fresh oil was added, 30 grade and I'll change it again soon. The engine warmed through nicely and I don't think there is any damage. I found I could adjust the Dell'orto carb to a very slow tick over and it has a smooth pick-up from anywhere in the rev-range. I'm so impressed I may fit a pair to replace the Amal on my Triumph.
we have been drowned in rain the past couple of days in South London so I hope it dries out a bit for the weekend so I can give it another ride. All the things I worried about like the heel brake and rocker gear change wasn't an issue.
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Hello,
new member here. I've got a couple of Guzzi singles, including this:
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q211/hermansplodge/KewRichmond010.jpg)
I've also got a Nuovo Falcone in Civile trim.
For spares, I can get pretty much everything I need from: www.stucchiluigi.it
They speak english over the phone and should be able to sort you out.
Corsa Italiana, in Hersham, have a superb Super Alce in urestored condition, including the machine gun mount! ( You know its a military bike, right, so you're not obliterating originality if you overpaint anything). Its well worth a trip there to have a look, or if you get stuck let me know and I can pop over and take a detailed photo if it helps.
Good luck with the project- slow project, slow bikes! (but fun :D)
Cheers
A tutto gas
Paul
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Thanks for that Paul I'll give them a call, the bike looks nice (Guardando bene). I don't bother with power these days so the little Moto Guzzi will suit me.
I sorted out the clutch by trial and error and eventually got it working normally, if a hefty clunk is normal anyway. It rides very smooth and the suspension irons out the bumps even long after it hit one. Must sort out the damping.
The carburettor is a modern flat slide Dellorto VHB26BS and works so well I'm thinking of using them on another bike. Got to keep an eye open for an original but they are very hard to come by, some guy was asking £650 for a new one in the box. I can live with the wrong one for now.
For the time being it's in the back of the garage and I'm playing with the Zundapp Bella in the workshop for the next few weeks.
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Ciao!
I've a VHB on the Falcone. The sport came with a 29mm SS1 and the 'normale' with a 27mm unit. Mine was a 27mm and FUBAR'd. I fitted a sport inlet manifold and the larger carb, a secondhand unit from an autojumble, you see them everywhere. I think I paid £30 for it. When you get to that point I can have a poke inside and see what jets were fitted, I had it set up by Brian Silver. Don't buy a new one!!
Cheers
ATG
Paul
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Nice. I assume you saw the Libyan one at NLM?
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/bancquo/postings/1942motor.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/bancquo/postings/1942AlceL.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b298/bancquo/postings/1942Alce.jpg)
No wonder they lost the war. How long would all that exposed valvegear and kickstart last in the desert... :-X
The centre stand is another matter though. I'm another with a Nuovo falcone, and it's stand would support the Queen Mary.. 8)
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Hi Another new member, I have a Guzzi Stornello that I am trying to put back on the road after years of neglect.
For the Alce, try joining the Google Guzzi singles group. The members are mostly American but do have a very good knowledge and are a great source of information. The subject of washing clutches came up recently.
http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles (http://groups.google.com/group/guzzi-singles)
Have a read of this regarding clutches, Not my own work but copy / paste from the Guzzi singles group & Patrick Hayes
UZZ, here is a pictorial tutorial I did several years back. This is for SuperAlce. Some of the parts shape and orientation will be slightly different, but the engineering design idea is consistent among the models. The pictures are still active.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Several people are currently experiencing noisy gear change action and
>> poor clutch performance on cold starts. Time for a refresher on the
>> clutch design and the required periodic method of bathing the parts.
>>
>> The Guzzi-Single clutch is composed of a stacked sandwich of 5 steel and
>> 5 bronze plates. The steel plates are connected in their center to the
>> clutch fixed body hub on the primary shaft of the transmission. The
>> bronze plates are connected at their perimeter to the gear-like outer
>> body basket. There may be one or two friction material rings installed
>> at the base of this stack as well. The outer body basket may run on a continuous core bushing or it may have a packet of loose rollers. All of these options depend on which model and year you have, but the multi-plate design and basic operation are all the same.
>>
>> Here are pictures of a used plate stack and a fresh stack already
>> installed into my SuperAlce.
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-719X.jpg
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-718X.jpg
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-720X.jpg
>>
>> When the clutch is bound by its spring, the stack of plates and all of
>> the clutch components rotate as an intact, unit mass. When you pull on the clutch handle, the spring pressure is countered or relieved and the various pieces are released and allowed to move independently. In theory, the stacked sandwich parts should all slip smoothly over each otther so that the outer body remains spinning with the motor, while the inner body remains stationary. This allows you to remain in gear with the engine running.
>>
>> In addition to these parts, there is a small passage at the top of the
>> crankcase which allows for a fine mist of air and engine oil to pass
>> from the crankcase chamber to the exterior clutch chamber.
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-723X.jpg
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-724X.jpg
>> (the zip tie is in place just to demonstrate the oil passage route)
>>
>> This mist of oil lubricates all the parts in the clutch chamber, including the plates, and eventually condenses into a puddle in the clutch chamber. It is a total loss system. There is no way for this oil to get back into the engine case. Eventually, this condensed puddle grows to the level that the bottom of the clutch parts are sitting in a pool of oil and any further excess starts to leak out behind the flywheel where the crankshaft passes through the clutch chamber. There is no seal for this passage. This blue tape represents the maximum depth of oil puddle within the clutch chamber before it will simply pour out the crankshaft hole.
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-722X.jpg
>>
>> Guzzi didn't want to waste this oil mist, so there is also a
>> crossing passage which goes from the clutch chamber back to the right
>> side in the vicinity of the chain drive sprocket. Some of the oil mist
>> works its way out over here and drips onto the chain as an automatic
>> oiler. Clever, but messy. Many of us plug that cross passage to reduce
>> the mess and we then relay on modern chain sprays. You can see my plug here.
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-717X.jpg
>>
>> Warm, thin, clean oil is a very nice substance to put onto the clutch
>> plates. It lubricates everything for smooth action and minimizes wear.
>> However, cold, dirty oil acts more like a glue than a lubricant and prevents free action of the plates. The various clutch pieces all bind together and fail to slip as intended. It can become very noisy to shift gears, especially down into first gear. The noise also produces damage to the tips of the gear teeth. The COMPLETE CURE is to fully disassemble the entire clutch package and clean all the parts to new condition.
>>
>> The INTERMEDIATE MAINTENANCE solution is the BATHE the clutch parts to
>> remove any oil or dirt or wear material and restore original action.
>> Here is the procedure. It will be a VERY messy job so protect your
>> floor and be prepared for hazardous disposals.
>>
>> First, at the lower rear curve of the clutch cover plate, there will be
>> a small, slotted screw-plug. Remove that to drain away all of the
>> condensed puddle of oil. Here is the drain plug at the lower rear of the clutch cover.
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-721X.jpg
>>
>> Flipping the cover over, you may be able to see the interior tip of this drain plug at the lower left.
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-722X.jpg
>>
>> Second, at the top of the left side crankcase you will find an engine
>> breather tube which returns crankcase pressure and oil mist back to the
>> oil reservoir tank. Adjacent to that breather tube is a slotted plug
>> which leads directly to the clutch chamber below.
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-723X.jpg
>>
>> http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/superalce/MVC-724X.jpg
>> (the zip tie is in place just to demonstrate the oil passage route)
>>
>> Third, introduce a pint of 'paint thinner' into the clutch chamber via
>> the upper plug. If you put too much, it will simply run out the opening
>> behind the flywheel.
>>
>> CAUTION: In America, paint thinner is also known
>> as mineral spirits. It is a good solvent, but not particularly volatile
>> or harsh to painted surfaces. In Europe however, the term 'paint thinner' refers to something Americans call lacquer thinner. This latter material is highly flammable and an instant paint remover and should NOT be used for this cleaning purpose. In a pinch, you can use gasoline. But please don't smoke while working.
>>
>> Fourth, push the kickstarter repeatedly. While doing so, pull on the
>> clutch handle slightly so that the engine does not turn over but the
>> kickstarter does go through full throw. In this way, the kickstarter
>> will be rotating the inner body and steel plates, while engine
>> compression will be holding back the external body and bronze plates.
>> The paint thinner will remove oil, grime, and wear contaminants from the
>> clutch parts and drop them into the bottom of the clutch chamber cover. Do this kicking and feathering for several minutes.
>>
>> Fifth, remove the plug at the rear lower corner of the clutch cover and
>> drain away the contaminated paint thinner. Although dirty, it might be useful for other rough part washing tasks around your shop. Let it settle for a week so you can decant the liquid off of the settled sludge.
>>
>> Sixth, repeat steps three through five, perhaps a total of three rinse
>> cycles.
>>
>> Seventh, clean up your mess and go for a ride. It will likely be
>> several months or a year before you need to repeat this procedure
>> depending on your miles driven.
>>
>> As a TEMPORARY AID before you have an opportunity to perform the more
>> involved bathing or disassembly tasks you can assist the releasing of
>> the cold clutch plates. You will generally find that shifting from
>> neutral into second gear is a lot easier than shifting down into first.
>> So, on a cold started motor, shift into second. Gently rev the motor
>> slightly, and, while holding the hand or foot brake, feather release the
>> clutch handle a few times so that you force a slippage of the plates several times. Do this almost to the point of stalling the motor. This will quickly heat the oil film which is binding the plates and the underlying components. You may now be able to return to idle and more quietly shift into first gear.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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Been a while since I posted here and the bikes have been mothballed for a while. Work has taken over everything but now I have some time off to play again. I'm working on the Sunbeam S8 at the moment but will get round to that Guzzi clutch very soon. I found the engine oil was very thick and took a couple of days to drain out. I have a feeling it contaminated the plates so I will pull them out and wash clean before trying again.