classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: smartfella on August 15, 2015, 11:32:23 PM
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Hi all.
Anyone know were I could get white wall tyres for my 1929 New Henley.
21"x300 front +19"x350.
Thanks.
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It wouldn't have had these originally ?, so no-one is likely to be supplying them ?
Probably means you will have to have them painted on.
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I think Coker Tyres in the US supply whitewalls,but 3.50x19 a better chance than 3x21.Regards John
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https://www.ajsutton.co.uk/product/Maxxis/2785054/80/90-21%20M6011F%2048H%20TL%20CLASSI:,%20TYRES?gclid=CL_1gfurrccCFWWWtAodowQPOw
http://www.maxxis.co.uk/catalog/tyre-35-12-classic-m6011#sizes
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DUNLOP-MH90-21-54H-TL-D402-WHITE-WALL-FRONT-MOTORCYCLE-TYRE-/390876705569?hash=item5b02113321
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why white wall tyres on a vintage bike?
are you confusing white wall tyres with the almost white tyres you could get in that period?
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The info I have which is not much show white wall tyres. That's the only reason I would.
Thanks.
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hate to burst your bubble but those are not white wall tyres but a feature of the printers block.
Very early vintage bikes had tyres of an off white shade, I remember a fanatic Brough restorer back in the 1970s had some especially made at an enormous cost, but then he never used the bikes on the road, and at shows he wouldn't even get them out his van if the weather looked even a tad wet.
Fit normal tyres.
you'll get some idea of what I mean in the photo here
https://occhiolungo.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/1916-racing-motorcycles-at-the-autodromo-de-sitges-terramar-spain/
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Thanks for your info and it makes it easier not needing to find WW tyres.
Your right about when they get old & dirty. I have a friend that bought white boots to match his gixer.
They looked shit 2 weeks later.
:D
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New Henly a rare make, got a pic?
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There's not much to see yet but this is what I got in March.
Hope to be finished end of this year.
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Good luck, I like an optimist ;D
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That brochure pic of the New Henley doesn't appear to have a 21" front wheel, is that your model ?
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From The Motor Cycle, 8 Nov 1928
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And the 1928 models...
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WOW
Thank you very much. My info about the NH has just doubled.
Fantastic.
;D
The bike come with a 21" front rim so that's why. As I said I don't have much info, Well until now.
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My pleasure. It's a most interesting bike, in fact the New Henley frame cause quite a stir at the Shows at the end of 1927 where it was rated one of the best new designs.
One interesting part of the design is how the gearbox mounts. I think there's a bolt in casting that has the slots for the two-stud top-mount Burman gearbox. This seems to be missing from your bike? It would be worth finding or making one, as this is an important part of the design.
Good luck with the restoration,
Leon
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Hi smartfella,
Your NH appears to have an Albion gearbox fitted as opposed to the Burmans in the catalog
pics ??
(just to add to your woes ???)
Have you the JAP engine? is it the "dog ear " type as in the catalog?
Regards
John
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Yes its an albion and I am putting a Sturmey Archer SV 350cc in it. This is only because
I knew nothing about the bike and It come with both parts.
Carden,
Where did you get the photos. I contacted loads of people including James Hewing Museum Director of the
The National Motorcycle Museum and he never heard of it. He thought it was a foreign bike.
He has a Henley tho.
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I don't know what has happened to motor cycling history: there are very few people around who are interested, fewer who know anything about it, and even fewer prepared to share what they know. The New Henley info comes from the two motor cycling magazines of the day: The Motor Cycle and Motor Cycling. I have many of the Show Numbers in my own personal library, but they do exist in various public libraries and in the Vintage MCC (UK) library. If you want to find out "stuff" about main-stream motor cycles - and I consider New Henley to be main stream - then the period magazines are the obvious place to start looking.
The VMCC also has Marque Experts for most of the major marques: contact them and see if they have a New Henley Marque Expert. You never know; some of us have very unusual interests!
Re the restoration of the bike: New Henley might have been a small manufacturer, but in 1928 their new cradle frame design and their quality components (JAP motor, Burman gear box, Bramption/Webb front fork) meant that they were building an advanced and desirable vintage motorcycle in 1928/1929. The JAP engine and Burman gearbox could both be acquired if you really wanted them to give you an interesting, rideable and valuable vintage motorcycle. If you poke in any-old motor and gearbox you'll certainly have something less.
Cheers
Leon
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New Henley catalogues 1928, 1929, 1930:
http://www.motorrad-oldtimer-photo-archiv.de/shop1/Gx2/index.php?language=en&cat=c413_New-Henley-New-Henley.html&cPath=195_196_198_211_413&=
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I suspect this is a 1927 model, rather than 1928 as claimed. In 1927, with the "ordinary" diamond frame (where the motor is part of the frame, rather than mounted IN the frame), the New Henley was much like the output of 100 other small manufacturers. The 1928 cradle frame was something special - not the first but on the leading edge.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/16535/lot/223/
Leon
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This one could be 1927, but as usual with restored bike you should be weary of the motor and gearbox fitted. Henley (before New Henley) did use Blackburne motors, so it could be OK. Again the "boring" diamond frame.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19163/lot/395/
Leon
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"Graces Guide" is a fabulous resource, but as usual it should be used more as a guide than a bible. We know, for example, that the cradle frame was shown at the end of 1927 and was fitted to at least some of the 1928 models. Still, some good info:
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Henley,_Blackburn_and_Co
Leon
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This site has some photos of Henley/New Henley bikes. Funny; I'd guess that the two bikes labelled Henley are probably New Henleys about 1927 http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/gallery-category/manufacturers/h/henley/ and the bike lablelled New Henley is probably a 1925-6-ish Henley! www.vintagebike.co.uk/pictures/1926-new-henley-2-34hp/
Leon
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The reason that magazines are hard to find is that most are being cut into little pieces and spread to the four winds. Still, if you want an original New Henley advert:
www.ebay.com.au/itm/161772897043
If you ask, he might have the scraps of this same magazine, with the New Henley article in it.
Leon
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I know the VMCC is not popular with some here but their library is a superb resource. They have indexed copies of both The Motor Cycle and Motor Cycling (as well as lots of others) in bound volumes and will photocopy pages for a small fee (not sure if this is available to non-members).
But you do need to be careful with the pictures in the reports - for instance the lubrication system on my Sunbeam is entirely different to the pictures in the magazines and in Bob Cordon Champ's book, although the same as on the two restored examples I've seen pictures of.
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Don't get me wrong I have no problems with VMCC the gentleman just never heard of the bike. It was quite nice of him to at least try.
I only wish I could restore it proper Carden but funds will lead the way it goes.
I'm still a learner at this game.
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Be careful of sidevalve Jap or Sturmy archer engines on offer, as most on sale via ebay seem to have started life in a lawnmower or some industrial application; sold by people who have very little knowledge of vintage or even british bikes.
That said, a sv Jap engine ought to be the easiest to fit, and for spares.
I'm none too sure about that gearbox either, if it came with the engine, its likely lawn mower as well.
What Cardan says below is spot on but I disgree in part with what he said about people not willing to share what they know.
I quit one club [not VMCC] after years of sharing extensive knowledge of one make gained from, not only owning that marque for 50 years, but a stint working at the factory that made them.
The reason for that was after sharing such knowledge, gained the hard way, and not by reading misinformation from the old bike press invariably up would pop some born again type who tried to contradict me or prove me wrong, or show me a "better" way of solving a non existant problem. [I'm a firm believer in doing things the way the maker intended and putting the thing together, once, properly. So many think finding a hi tech solution to a low tech problem proves something].
There is only so many times I can stand being told how "wrong" my own bike is, the bike thats had two owners in its 80yr life.
I came to the conclusion that one big factor in that was the newcomers to old biking, almost always the worst kind, are the guys in their late 40s or 50s who have made a few bob being successful in life,bought an expensive bike but cannot stand to be shown to be mistaken or ignorant of a subject. Needless to say they have spent their time in non practical businesses.
The other is the type who has read all the classic bike press, thinks he thus knows it all, and is therefore an 'expert' on it all.
That the type who is selling stuff on ebay so hilariously misdescribed.
As for the bike press, I stopped reading many years ago when the 'expert' writer did not know the difference between a magneto and an alternator. A lot of the time these writers are just re-hashing old misinformation from older issues.
That shows the value of the older resources, now being cut up and dispersed by opportunists on ebay etc.
You cannot beat first hand knowledge.
As for you smartfella ask around as much as you can, but wiegh up the info you get, judge it, sit on it, and then do not be afraid to dismiss it if it doesn't feel right.
[and don't waste money on white wall tyres]!
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Thanks for all the comments.
If I can get a JAP 350cc OHV engine & Burman Gear box and a I will fit them.
So if anyone has them and wants to swop with a Nice 350cc Sturmey Archer SV engine & Albion 3 speed gear box let me know.
As usual money is always a factor.
I can only do my best.
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Parallel pushrod engine for a sturmy archer , let me think
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I have found a entry for New Henly in a 1929 magazine. I will scan it in later
If that albion gearbox is two speed, [have you looked?] it would have been fitted with a 196cc Villiers engine
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The Sturmey Archer engine number is a code that tells you a lot about the engine. If you put up the number I'll give you what I can.
And I think the Albion gearbox is too light for what you have in mind.
Cheers,
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here you are, 2 speed albion, 196c Villiers engine.
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h314/moto_photos/nh.jpeg)
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If I can get a JAP 350cc OHV engine & Burman Gear box and a I will fit them.
So if anyone has them and wants to swop with a Nice 350cc Sturmey Archer SV engine & Albion 3 speed gear box let me know.
As usual money is always a factor.
I can only do my best.
On that basis, some of us think that you should build it with what you have.
This penchant for rebuilding things utterly factory has got to stop !!
Removing all the history along the way....
With the proviso though that if things don't fit, you won't resort to chopping off any stray brackets or bits,
but rather fab up brackets spacers etc to suit.
Look forward to hearing how it goes.
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This penchant for rebuilding things utterly factory has got to stop !!
Removing all the history along the way....
Let me guess that there is no "history" of these cycle parts with an Albion box and S.A. engine.
I wonder why "rebuilding things utterly factory has got to stop". I'll be pleased while there are some people at least trying to get things right, and in this case the top mount Burman is an integral part of the interesting fame design. Why not try to find one? How? Advertise everywhere you can think of. Seek out every New Henley owner and ask them. The box is not very interesting, or even valuable, but it is correct.
Re the engine, a side-valve JAP would be an excellent option. Most of the OHV motors have been shoved into frames in which they don't belong anyway, to create "new history". I don't like it, but I don't think it has "got to stop".
Cheers
Leon
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Why find a sidevalve JAP when it already has a sidevalve SturmeyArcher though ?
Getting it running with whatever is to hand is likely to take decades less than finding all the 'correct parts ?,
and coercing someone to part with them. Especially if the budget is limited....
You seem to have completely misconstrued my words too, so its tough to reply to that ?!
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The side-valve JAP would share crankcase mounting detail with the correct OHV, making it easier to fit the correct motor when it comes along - and it will if you get the bike running and rideable. It's not correct, but not as incorrect as fitting a completely random motor. Engine plates, oiling, magneto, ... would be the same as the OHV.
The side-valve JAP motor was reasonably common and should be findable and inexpensive. The years 1920 to 1930 follow the word PNEUMATICS (P=1920, N=1921,...) so a good motor would be 1928-29 (I or C) with 1927 or 1930 possibly OK too. The 500 SV is usually K, so the engine number would be something like K/I 9999 for 1928 or K/C 9999 for 1929. The 350 would be J/I 9999 for 1928 etc.
Like S.A., Blackburne and others, JAP would supply motors for everything from lawn mowers to concrete mixers to railway inspection trolleys, so it's buyer beware as usual.
Leon
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love the OEC anyone know of one for sale
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Hub centre steering OEC?
you'll be lucky
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the forks do look very interesting I will keep my eyes open
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Hub centre steering..........No forks in the normal way of things.
I have only seen 3 or 4 bikes with that set up over the years; one with a sidevalve V twin engine owned in the1980s by a guy in london, he's now dead, one with a silver hawk engine now in Sammy Millers museum, the others I cannot properly recall.
I fear you'll be looking for a long time and need very deep pockets
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failed on both then , to old and short arms :)
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You too? ;)
If interesting forks turn you on look at a 1947 FN 450cc
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that is a mess even if it works well , I fail to see the beauty in earls also but each to their own
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Some possible Burman boxes for the New Henley - not exactly right, but close?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221858058337
Ditto, not as complete and no clutch:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221858042553
Or this sporty one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm//221858036494
Leon
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Agree those FN forks look a bit messy, but they are not Earles forks. They are FN own.
I was once on a french rally and a guy riding one had such a big grin on his face that when I saw one of a similar age here I bought it sight unseen.
That had the later version which was rubber sprung, frot and back. With the large saddle, as needed by fat belgian arses it was one of the most comfortable bikes I have ever ridden over rough surfaces.
Nice well built engine with a design link to Sunbeams, only drawbacks was the clutch which was a sod to dismantle without the right tool, and one of those kickstarts which stubbed your toe everytime.
Yet another bike I wish I'd kept.
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My pleasure. It's a most interesting bike, in fact the New Henley frame cause quite a stir at the Shows at the end of 1927 where it was rated one of the best new designs.
One interesting part of the design is how the gearbox mounts. I think there's a bolt in casting that has the slots for the two-stud top-mount Burman gearbox. This seems to be missing from your bike? It would be worth finding or making one, as this is an important part of the design.
Good luck with the restoration,
Leon
Hi Leon.
I have had to change the use of the Albion gear box as it just did not work right. On your advice I started looking for a Burman gear/clutch and found 1.
Do you have anymore details on the gearbox mounts that would help me make 1. I don't think I will find 1 for sale anytime soon.
Any info would be great.
Regards
Marty
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Hi Marty,
Sorry, I've posted all the relevant info I could find. I've just had a look but can't see a patent, so there probably wasn't one. Here's detail from the drawing I posted earlier in this thread.
I see two ways forward.
1. Just fabricate a "bridge" to hold your gearbox. Draw out a plate for either side, parallel through the centre, with an ear at each end to go down to your bolt holes. Cut it out of cardboard to make sure it is going to fit, then gut it out of 1/4" mild steel plate. (These days get it cut by laser/water/whatever - probably cheaper and quicker.) Get another piece of steel the width of the frame lugs, maybe 3/4" thick, and appropriate length. On the underside, mill out a slot to match the ridge on top of the gearbox, and two slots to suit the studs. Weld or bolt your plates on either side. Bingo.
2. Beg or borrow or make a pattern for the correct piece and have it cast. It's easy if you have the right friends, difficult otherwise!
Good luck,
Leon
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Thanks Leon,
I will let you know how I get on.
After a lot of searching and elimination of info that I have and was sent I now know what I have.
A 1928 New Henley model 7 De luxe semi-sports 350cc.
:-)
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Brilliant. It's a very interesting machine and I hope you can get it back on the road.
Leon