classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: Jonny The Goat on November 29, 2015, 12:28:10 PM
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Have a lead on a barn find Norton. I am no expert. It's said to be a 40's bike. Is it a WD16 ? Engine looks like photos I see but were they rigid frames?
Cheers, Jon
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looks like it was once a WD Norton
sprung rear end conversion like this were common mods all over the world where unwanted or surplus WD machines were sold off/scrapped /abandoned
personally I'd scrap it as it will have need kept going by all sorts of bodge methods.
where was it found?
take some better pics, engine/frame numbers etc and ask on here
http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3155626639&frmid=16&cmd=show
they are the best place to go for info on wd stuff.
be prepared for it to have fake engine and frame numbers, originals nearly always overstamped to suit local beaurocracy
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It came up with a few other things. I bought a 39 Rudge 250 engine cheap in a unknown frame, anyone have any ideas?. Will stick a photo of that on to see if anyone can ID it. There is also a old Triumph I may have if the price is right. Its a Tiger I think, its the bike in the old photo but now in lots of parts.
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I think scrapping it is a bit harsh. It could make quite a reasonable bike if tidied up a bit (depending of course on the state of the internals).
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The guys on the link I gave have full records for WD machines, they will give you chapter and verse on it if it ha sthe correct engine/frame numbers.
They will also dismay you with the cost of returning it to WD spec.
They have wide experience of WD bikes being repatriated from far flung places, and they will tell you what a mess the internals are likely to be, and other horror stories. Concensus there is mostly similar to mine,
forks alone will fetch around 500£
If you like fat heavy slugs it'll make a sort of a bike.
Sell the Rudge engine to help finance it. Frame has a hint of Triumph about.
The T100 is a far better prospect and worth flogging the other two to get it sorted.
With old bikes these days it pays to be pragmatic.
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I will hold onto the Rudge engine for a bit, I have some other parts gearbox and a spring front end so would like to make up a lightweight special over the winter. Have nothing for the back of the frame yet, hoping I may find something at Kempton. That's why I would like to know what its from? It looks a bit like a Triumph but the castings and lug holes are to chunky I have been told. So if anyone has a idea what its from let me know. Cheers.
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Scrap the Norton ? !!
Those rear suspension conversions are becoming prized among enthusiasts,
as examples of working improvements to the breed.
Not many have survived either...
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I was given a 16H/wd Norton once,tried to sell it,wasted money on ads,no takers,so I did scrap it.Now I self flagellate every St Eustices day.Chanting...engine$1000, dolls head box.$1000,front forks $1000,frame $1000, wheels and drums$1000,and so on until I lapse in unconsciousness.An experience so searing,it has turned me into a crazy hoarder with his own TV spot.Unfortunately too late to hoard much cheap motorbike stuff.Regards John.[PS St E is the patron saint of those unfortunates who sell a Faberge Egg for 2/6 at a car boot sale,and find out what it was worth six months later on the Antiques Roadshow.
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I was once given five M20s circa 1964, left them for the scrap man.No regrets.
lots more since, although I do confess to the odd pang of Conscience when I remember the half decent stuff I broke for spares or 'improved' back then
Triumphs by the bucket, Velos, Nortons, all sorts
much as I have been riding obselete bikes since I was 16, [ back then there was veteran vintage and junk, none of this 'classic', 'emerging classic' nonsense. I have never subscribed to this recent notion that every pile of junk needs to be saved and restored at great expense to its "former glory", hardly any old bikes had glory of any kind.
far better to break it up and keep a better project going.
I have seen far too many decent bikes, far better than the junk thats on offer these days going to the scrap yard to wax sentimental over some doggy mutilated sidevalve.
Thats just my opinion of course, yours is wrong ;)
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First, can I check that when you say Scrap it you mean break it and sell the parts? I hope you do not mean stick it in the crusher and weigh it in :) Ether way I will not do that if I buy it. I know you can make more money that way but I can't bring myself to do it, someone else may who buys it from me but as long as I get a profit from the complete bike I would be happy. I may though as what normally happens just find a place in one of my garages, squeeze it in and keep it. Not telling the wife :)
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yes break it, the sum of the parts is probably greater than the whole
Or sell it as is and put the cash toward something decent like the T100, which will soak up a pile of cash as it is.
Its your bike to do as you like, but you need to stand back and take a hard look at it.
I can only speak with the accumulated predjudices of 51 years on old bikes.
Some bikes are just not worth the effort.
among them I class scabby
hacked about, recovered from some armpit country, ex wd 16H Nortons.
If you had found one in an as found 1945 condition that would be a different matter.
I can almost guarantee the inside of yours will be a real mess,seen too many of them.
However, the lesson is yours to learn.
Its a shame your pics are too small to pick out a lot of detail, can't expand they just pixillate
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looks ok to me you might get it running and ride as is for some slow fun , the front section with the rudge engine looks very triumph
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for slow fun I walk the dog, but you are right there is something very reminiscent of Triumph re that frame,can't put my finger on it.
It would be interesting to know exactly where these lot were found
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Belarus,Ukraine,Bulgaria?I can tell you that in the sixties many old bike shops closed,and the stuff was taken to the tip,because the scrappies wouldnt take bike stuff,not enough weight.When I was a kid ,a man in the street made aluminium pullies for electric motors etc,using ally from bike crankcases.I got tons of Indian and Harley iron from him free,a complete1947 SV74 Harley,less cases and box,heaps of WLA and army Indian chief stuff.The price rose quickly in the early seventies,and I did allright.Back then you couldnt give away a M20 or 16H,side valve slugs.Regards John.
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those of us that were around bikes in the 1960s have a really hard time convincing anyone under 55 that not every old bike was cherished in order to keep it original or save it for posterity.
I have seen really good bikes ridden into scrap yards, had bikes given me, seen them buried .
The religious fervour applied to the worship of junk is very amusing to us oldies.
When fools come up to me and say, referring to one of my rare bikes. "thats worth a few bob" my reply is always, 30p a kilo, or what ever price mixed scrap is fetching today.
Prices of old bikes these days are insane.
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I am over 55 and do not remember to many being scrapped (unless a bantam) they where much cheaper in the 60s granted , as for price its dictated by demand and filters down from Vincent brough velo etc to the lower end I think its the same for cars , I will buy any complete british bike for 30p kilo or about 15p lb and would advise anyone else to do the same .
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30p a kilo is a sarky answer to not an offer to treat. ;)
I don't know how well you know London but 1965/6/7/8-ish at the eastern end of the Hammersmith flyover about where the big M&S store is was a large demolition site where peopel could drive in and leave their old bikes and cars; this was because at that time there was a massive problem with old vehicles being abandoned on the streets. I have seen some desirable [these days] bikes in there, I remember heaps all jumbled up, and burrowing into one to remove a first class BTH mag off an alloy engined Triumph twim for a few bob slippe dto the guy in charge, I'd remove tank badges and leave them on a post behind the fence to recover on my way home from the 59 club.
plenty of bikes scrapped or abandoned in gardens and so on; I bought a T100 for a fiver, noend of small stuff, I'd ride around onthe top of a bus looking into gardens, if I saw a likely looing prospect I'd knock on the door and ask..... 3 answers likely,#1 take it away son for gods sake, #2 its 10 bob, or #3 eff off.
Ariel leader, a Tiger cub, a pre war 250 BSA, a 1945 C11, couple C12, a B31alternator bike, several AMC 350's cheapest £1.50 all runners or needing minimal work.were some I remember
I never bothered with mopeds, WD Enfield, M20s or 16Hs.
the junky stuff included a 1930 RE V twin, under hole in a shed for about 30yrs, a beautiful little pre war NSU, so corroded on the alloy, a 1928 Raliegh 250
My pre-war pride and joy belonged to a guy that would never part with it, when he died his widow paid a neighbour to take it away, he robbed the chair off it and took it to a dump, from where it was rescued by a backyard breaker who swappped it with me for bits of the £5 T100.
My brother bought his first bike, a James for 14quid from an Oxfam shop, belstaffsuit and helmet included
They were happy days for the old bike fan.
The stuff that came to light in the great building clearance projects was amazing, a bike and side bricked into an air raid shelter, I knew off two under flooorboards, one behind a piano, another behind a lathe covered in oil, it was mint when washed, a TR5 in a loft, a V twin James in a skip, I missed that one by minutes.
No way these days a young bloke canget hold of a interesting ike so cheap or free
Even Motorcycle Mechanics magazine GAVE AWAY a running 1150cc Royal Enfield back then.
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For 30p a kilo,I will fix you up with all the British iron you want.The price has actually crashed to 2c/k[1p] in the last few weeks.My last bin was just on 10ton,and they held to the offer price of $120/ton.The woman in the office was doing me a favor,next bin $35 a ton.Not bikes but AECs,Coles, Fodens,Leylands,Commers,all the cream of pommy engineering when they still knew how to do anything.Regards John.
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I will buy any complete british bike for 30p kilo .
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I confess ,I do still have heaps of British bike stuff.It amuses me when young guys lob up to the door expecting me to give them something"so they can restore it".Anything they manage to beg buy or steal goes straight onto Ebay.The local vintage club was trying to con "old farts like you" into donating a bike so young members could restore it.Well sez I" Whats wrong with an eighties jappa?I can pull one from the scrap free for you"Sez the young uns"No ,we want a Brit bike coz eighties jappas aint worf nuffink"Scrapping starts again in earnest on 1 Feb 2016.I just hope the Chinese economy hasnt gone belly up by then.Regards John.
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I have had a very similar experience when a friend needed a project for him and his son to restore together, I let him take a 1975 bonny which was a big mistake as they loosely assembled it and sold it on eBay, he said his son wanted a car? But back to the point here , trying to value a British bike related to the material it is constructed of is alike to valuing a Van Gogh on the cost of the oils used, there is no correlation or sense
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you are right, but have missed my point.
I get daft sods coming up to me at rallies whose only interest or conversation is the value of old bikes, either that or its a comment about how much the number plate is worth, scrap value is about all its worth as scrap metal composing some old bike.
Its my way of shutting up such people as as far as I am concerned my bikes will never be for sale in my lifetime. Therefore their cash value is zero.
Their real value is in the pleasure I have had from them,the adventures I have had with them which are priceless.
Just like the Van Gogh.
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Their real value is in the pleasure I have had from them,the adventures I have had with them which are priceless............. my thoughts exactly , very happy days even the miles ive pushed them
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I am also happy remembering the days when I pushed bikes home, because I like to recall when I was capable of pushing a bike further than from outside the shed to inside the shed` >:(
I must have been fit, my house was halfway up a bloody long hill.
another bit of nostalgia was bringing all that non running tat I bought home by train, those were the days, never too far from a railway station, buy a ticket for it and heave the bike into the guards van.
Me and my brother knew every Southern region station with lifts and no stairs on the way out.
Way way back I siezed a pre war Matchless I'd thrown together from bits, belting down a hill on the Hastings side of Winchelsea, so a very long push up the very steep hill opposite, then a long coast down to the station and an hours wait, but one change and I was home which then was just 500yds rom the station.
No recovery services in them days, so another thing to make you fond of vintage bikes is they ain't nearly as heavy as modern ones.
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the last bike I pushed was not british but a guzzi le mans and 25 miles from home , after 50 yards (why? )I gave up and left it by the side of the road (it was insured) I went back 2 days latter with a trailer and it was still there :'( must have been a nice area , I will never buy a Italian bike again , it must have owed me £10,000 when I sold it for 6 as a none runner as I cold not even bring myself to look at the bike , from that day on its british bikes only
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John K, with your guess at where they may of come from one was spot on :) Well done. I have the rudge and Triumph Tiger 110 in bits is on the way. I have left the Norton but passed on info to one of my friends who is probably going to take it. Seems like you said there are quite a few old British bikes out in that part of the world and its nice to have a contact out there like I have. Sorry I will not be passing on his name ;)
I will do some good photos of the old frame and do a re post as I have yet to ID it, its so much like a Triumph but not quite right. Maybe its a European bike frame of some sort?.
Cheers, Jon
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I hope not Bulgaria as I have someone looking there now , he has found me some real rubbish but no british (yambon)
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I take it you are not keen on Voshkods or Saturns?Regards John.
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not my thing nor urals etc , there are some being sold on ebay and they will do cash on delivery ?
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Mark2, get your guy to look harder ;) Mind you better be quick :)
Cheers, Jon