classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: Wardill on December 19, 2015, 11:27:02 AM
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Hello All
A while back I asked some questions regarding the Wardill Motorcycle, and mentioned that I would like to build a replica, well I am pleased to announce that I have started the build of a replica,
I am currently on a large fact finding mission, tracking down the make of many of the parts, I have made quite good progress,
Here are the reference photos I have for the build.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20Motorbike%20Cropped%20copy_zpsaiw3rth2.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20Motorbike%20Cropped%20copy_zpsaiw3rth2.jpg.html)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/20030427_232801000_iOS_zpsfmbqxo8d.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/20030427_232801000_iOS_zpsfmbqxo8d.jpg.html)
My plan is to build as much of the frame as i can, to get a rolling chassis, while working on the engine too.
for those who haven't seen my original posts, the Wardill Motorcycle , used a bespoke Wardill Engine with an internal annular non firing piston that worked as an internal supercharger. this can bee seen in the following photograph.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20Engine%20Prototype%2001_zpsghddyslm.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20Engine%20Prototype%2001_zpsghddyslm.jpg.html)
I have also managed to buy the correct 21" beaded edge wheel.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wheel%20011_zpsnyzz7hoz.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wheel%20011_zpsnyzz7hoz.jpg.html)
I have also purchased the correct Brampton Forks, this has now allowed me to check the dimensions of my 1:1 print, so that I can start measuring the frame, I will be ordering some tube soon to start the build!
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/IMG_20151215_183148_zps5tuhadb0.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/IMG_20151215_183148_zps5tuhadb0.jpg.html)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/IMG_20151215_183059_zpsdbeigfhw.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/IMG_20151215_183059_zpsdbeigfhw.jpg.html)
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interesting ,looks like the oiling system was worked on , was this a problem
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hello, I have no idea, but haven't read anything that would suggest it was an issue. what makes you say that?
Thanks
Mark
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The engine looks busy on the timing side , so im guessing by not using the crankcase pressure the fuel oil mix normally used with 2 strokes is not used here so needs a lubrication supply for the pumping outer piston and big end , interesting
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Ahh I see what you mean, I have always had thoughts on the oil system, it uses a Best and Lloyd oil pump, and a separate oil tank within the fuel tank, you can just make out the second filler cap and oil line in the pictures above. there isn't currently an engine built, just the patent drawings, so we are learning all the time.
also my knowledge of two stroke engines is not what it could be ;)
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wish I could see more but looks like a metering valve at the rear of the cylinder which I would guess is for the outer pump thing
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Here are some additional Photos, its the earlier version of the engine with a single exhaust port, the later had dual ports, I have circled what I believe you are referring to as a metering valve.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Metering%20Valve_zps7huqhudt.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Metering%20Valve_zps7huqhudt.jpg.html)
photo showing path of oil line (this is the pre production bike using a Grigg frame)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20-%20Prototype%20-%20Grigg%20frame_zpsorn8k2ig.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20-%20Prototype%20-%20Grigg%20frame_zpsorn8k2ig.jpg.html)
later Dual Port Engine
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20Engine%20with%20Cylinder%20Removed_zpsystshyiz.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20Engine%20with%20Cylinder%20Removed_zpsystshyiz.jpg.html)
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An interesting project. Good luck with it.
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nice , the metering variable valve which I think I can see is on the rear of the cylinder and not shown on the illustration (maybe the wrong angle) if your building the engine from scratch I would build two , the lubrication may take some getting right first time
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Mark, second attempt, is this what you are referring too ?
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Engine%20Closeup02_zpsgxprytkc.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Engine%20Closeup02_zpsgxprytkc.jpg.html)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Engine%20Closeup01_zpsr6rvaih6.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Engine%20Closeup01_zpsr6rvaih6.jpg.html)
I am planning on using some modern technology to help with the build, I have had the engine drawn in AutoCAD inventor, this will enable me to print the parts in 3D to use for casting, I have to fine tune the 3D cad first though, some parts aren't 100% spot on.
A short video of the engine in motion.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/th_12172426_1512877582360097_1002631639_n_zpsgvigd4e1.mp4) (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/12172426_1512877582360097_1002631639_n_zpsgvigd4e1.mp4)
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An interesting and ambitious project which would have been almost impossible just a few years ago, now with all this modern hi tech engineering stuff it's feasible.
Coming soon, 3D printed desirable veteran bikes?
A time machine would be better so I can nip back and stop myself flogging all those bikes I should have kept.
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Yeah 3D printing is amazing, I should be able to print most of the engine parts off and make casting moulds.
I wouldn't mind a time machine so that I could find out where the two bikes that were built ended up, I cant imagine they were ever scrapped!!
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yes that looks like a metering valve , the cad shows the outer and inner piston sweeping to be level (tops) is this the case , and have you calculated the pump displacement volume and comp ratio , it is interesting , does it run inner and outer rings on a common sleeve
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Mark, the charging piston has a CC of 407cc and the firing piston is 346cc, the charging piston gave approx. 12 - 14lb of boost at 5000rpm I'm still not sure about the sleeve, I believe there may be a common sleeve, but they may swipe against each other, the charging piston doesn't run any rings at all.
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the top of the charging piston looks to have a ring and I think it must have a sleeve (looks like a spigot at the top of barrel) as the piston appears to have rings fitted , 12/14 lb is very high for petrol and the heat generated must be difficult to lose where did you get these figures from , I have read it did well being raced and I wonder on what fuel , it would be great to hear one run and im guessing your casting in iron , keep us posted on the progress please http://www.odd-bike.com/2014/02/dkw-supercharged-two-strokes-force-fed.html 5000rpm for any mag is asking a lot
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Great project, and an interesting read.
Just a thought - was the frame Wardill's own, or is it from another complete machine, like they did with the Grigg frame in the picture you posted?
It was a golden age for buying in proprietary parts, up to, and including frames (both Sun and Chater Lea did lug sets and the like), so if they had enough on their plate developing the engine, it might have been expedient to buy in a suitable frame to go with the Brampton forks and other 'rolling chassis' components.
Nick
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Mark, the boost figures were taken from an article in the "Motor Cycle" written by one of the builders James Wardill, I'm not sure what fuel was used sorry.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20Engine%202%20001_zpsykpqgw1g.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/Wardill%20Engine%202%20001_zpsykpqgw1g.jpg.html)
Nick, as you say the prototype used a Grigg frame, but the production bike used a Wardill built frame, but the frame does resemble a Chatter-Lea frame that I have seen, so I can only assume that it utilised Chatter-Lea lugs, this would make sense.
Wardill Motorcycle
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/4wardill%2001_zpsya8zajo9.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/4wardill%2001_zpsya8zajo9.jpg.html)
Hemming (using Chatter-Lea lugs) restored by Martin Shelley
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorcycle/hemming%20-Chatter-Lea%20Lugs_zpsgbxxsem1.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorcycle/hemming%20-Chatter-Lea%20Lugs_zpsgbxxsem1.jpg.html)
I am planning a trip to the national Motorcycle museum over the Christmas holidays, for a bit of a fact finding mission to see how the bikes go together. this is a very big learning curve for me, but one I am enjoying.
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was in with the best of the day \
Page 23, January 1925
LIST OF FINISHERS in the LONDON-EXETER.
LIST OF FINISHERS in the LONDON-EXETER.
SOLO MACHINES.
H. B. Browning (596 Scott), P. J. R. Heath (1,30r Henderson), E. Eland (349 B.S.A.), W. S. Bishop (596 Scott Squirrel). I. F. Anderson (350 Indian), W. Bucknell (348 Matchless), H. W. Clark (348 Raleigh), E. A. Marks (35o Indian), H. W. Harrington (346 Zenith), L. N. Stan.nah (498 Ariel), H. C. Nias (498 Ariel), W. H. Hardman. (347 Matchless), G. A. Pidgeon (492 Sunbeam), H. B. Hadfield (348 Ner-a-Car), N. Runnels-Moss (348 Ner-a-Car), H. Crowther (499 Sunbeam), J. B. Perkins (499 Triumph), J. Lewis (499 Sunbeam), J. Stagg (348 Douglas), W. W. Jenkins (346 Monopole), L. G. Smith (348 A.J.S.), P. A. Thatcher (499 Du.nelt), George Brough (98o Brough Superior SS roo), B. S. Allen (980 Brough Superior SS Too), E. H. Pielden (17o Powell), H. E. R. Polden (499 Sunbeam), J. P. Wardill (346 Wardill), E. W. Spencer (346 Douglas), C. H. King (346 Douglas), V. C. 0. Anstice (346 Douglas), E. W. T. Howard (349 MatadorBradshaw), J. I. Faulkner (55o Triumph), E. H. Gifford (348 Beardmore-Precision), C. Aschan (4)6 Beardtuore-Precision), M. B. Hutchinson (499 P. and M. Panther), A. H. S. Love (996 Matchless), R. H. White (348 Beardmore-Precision), J. S. Wakelin (989 Harley-Davidson), R. G. Tull (348 A. J .S.), C. J. Wheeler (499 Triumph-Ricardo), T. J. Medlen (348 Ner-a-Car), B. Bragg (490 Norton), C. J. White (499 Triumph), A. T. Clark (344 Zenith), J. J. Boyd-Harvey (348 Raleigh), T. Clark (348 Raleigh), R. J. Low (492 Sunbeam), G. Stannard (350 Grindlay Peerless), G. S. Wright (998 Indian), J. O'Donnell (348 Indian), J. J. Hall (980 P. and P.), W. H. Wells (348 A.J.S.), N. Hall (172 Excelsior), C. V. Bennett (499 Burney), C. A. Lewis (486 Scott Squirrel), C. Lintott (499 P. and M. Panther), G. W. Copeland (490 Norton), A. M. Kni11 (399 Raleigh), F. H. Kni11 (348 Raleigh), W. W. Lawrence (492 Sunbeam), T. W. Buckle (348 P.N.), S. G. Huntley (293 New Imperial), S. A. Tomson (494 Triumph), H. H. Barrett (348 Ner-a-Car), N. A. Taylor (499 Rudge-Multi), C. W. Seth (490 Norton), W. H. Kennedy
(347 Matchless), H. H. Knights (344 Royal Enfield), R. P. C. Franklin (349 New Scale-Bradshaw), T. G. Meeten (17o Powell), E. A. Cullum (172 Francis-Barnett), F. A. Longman (989 HarleyDavidson), H. R. R. Harte (980 Coventry Eagle), A. Fraser (980 Coventry Eagle), W. A. Bouette (346 Zenith), P. F. Lucas (492 Sunbeam), A. S. Guthrie (498 Scott Super-Squirrel), R. B. Clark (172 Diamond), H. E. Cosby (249 B.S.A.), L. B. Chimey (346 Rudge-Whitworth), A. C. Godfrey (493 B.S.A.), R. A. Kelson (499 Triumph), A. S. Hassell (700 N.U.T.), W. J. Abernethy (348 Douglas), R. Dalton (492 Sunbeam), G. L. Welts (172 Ray), S. C. Hubbard (348 Indian), F. W. C. Bennett (292 O.K.), G. Kuhn (248 Velocette), L. Heller (248 Velocette), W. Driver (499 P. and M. Panther), A. C. Payne (348 Connaught), W. K. Hanning (348 Cedos), J. E. A. Chipling (349 O.K.-Bradshaw).
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thanks Mark, I had seen that before, the J P Wardill, Was James Percival Wardill my great grandfathers brother, and one of the builders.
I have found some info you may find interesting today, this is an extract from an article
"It has been found that there is defiantly no trouble with stuck piston rings, while the deposit of carbon is very slight, ordinary splash lubrication is employed, of being deployed by a Best and Lloyd mechanical fuel pump direct to the crankcase. For high-speed work there is a needle-valve controlled by-pass which diverts a small quantity of lubricant direct to the working piston, through a duct drilled in a web which runs from the outside, through the annular chamber, to the working cylinder between the transfer ports. This hole, incidentally is never uncovered, and there is thus no need for non-return valves"
I have had thoughts that they used 4 star petrol, not two stroke, what are you thoughts, would it be possible?
thanks
Mark
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Im guessing your talking pre mix , I would have thought the whole system was running on a two stroke type ? total loss oil of the day but no pre mix , the beauty of a two stroke is its simplicity power and manufacturing cost too my mind , but this engine appears to have none , add to that the fact that the oiling system may prove over time to be its Achilles heal and a fine balancing act which the public would have struggled to understand or master , your relative obviously got it to work well and should be commended for this (we would still be riding houses if it were not for men like him) but I can see a good reason why it was never taken up . Best of luck and I would love to hear one run one day
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I thought it is about time I updated this thread, there has been some progress albe it rather slow, largely due to a house move and a family that demand much of my time, but I now have a rolling front fork.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorbike/8B1FA091-2CCE-4EEF-862A-9E1E1D8FF712_zpswzogj6v7.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorbike/8B1FA091-2CCE-4EEF-862A-9E1E1D8FF712_zpswzogj6v7.jpg.html)
I visited the vintage motorcycle show at Staffordshire county show ground this weekend and managed to find a perfectly fitting wheel, it's very rusty but fits like a glove, including the notch to keep the brake backing plate from rotating.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorbike/1A5F0BBD-0558-48FB-ACE6-7B5B03381E13_zpsaaruemut.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorbike/1A5F0BBD-0558-48FB-ACE6-7B5B03381E13_zpsaaruemut.jpg.html)
Next up is some sketch work and start work on the frame.
Here is me standing next to a 1:1 printout of the bike
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorbike/5E664D76-656F-49C5-BEE0-A332C17E76BD_zpsuh03lhrw.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorbike/5E664D76-656F-49C5-BEE0-A332C17E76BD_zpsuh03lhrw.jpg.html)
I'm looking for a 26" X 2 1/2" 36 spoke beaded edge rear wheel with an internally expanding brake, may consider a hub on its own as long as it's complete.
Thanks Mark
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Hi Mark,
I've also been watching with interest and thought I'd put in my two penn'orth regarding the carburettor. As shown in the pictures it is a Mills. Villiers bought Mills in 1926. They immediately started fitting an exact copy to their engines and slowly refined it internally over the years. It looked identical externally. Essentially you can fit a prewar M/W (Medium Weight) Villiers carb set up for a Villiers 350 engine of the day knowing it looks identical and will be jetted etc, very close to Wardill requirements. It's nice to know there is some part that shouldn't cause you too many problems.
Cheers,
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I thought I would give you a very brief update on my progress. The frame is starting to take shape, Carl at Turnertech Engineering has the honours of producing replica Chater-Lea lugs, here is his cad drawing that will be used to aid with their manufacture.
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s238/AxlFoley16v/Wardill%20Motorbike/72E9B824-A8A5-4409-B9AF-94DB829DEBCB_zps8vpnguit.jpg) (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/AxlFoley16v/media/Wardill%20Motorbike/72E9B824-A8A5-4409-B9AF-94DB829DEBCB_zps8vpnguit.jpg.html)
I am till on the look out for a 36spoke rear wheel and an Albion 3 speed gearbox, any help in sourcing these items would be much appreciated
You can follow my progress on Instagram and face book, just search for Wardill Motorcycle Company
Thanks
Mark