classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => European and Other Bikes => Topic started by: radiodjkevin on January 18, 2017, 02:41:16 AM
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Not sure exactly about the ID, but I think its a 1967 Pannonia 250 Cross MC-67 ?? The 80 yr old man I bought it from did not know for sure, and his english was not clear..he was from Hungary. If anyone has any info I would love to know more.
One thing I can not figure out is all these models have a red frame, but this one has a black frame and looks to be original paint on frame..Here are some pics.
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This pic did not post :( I willtry again.
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here is left side.
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I've only ever seen one Pannonia. It was back in the early 1970s and a school mate was given it as a non-runner by some old boy in his road.
He never did get it going, and years later I read an article where they were dumped on the market by Pride and Clarke of London for ridiculously low prices.
I can see why...don't know how well put together your bike is, but his was typical Commie-Bloc era rubbish.
Maybe (like CZs) your comp bike is much better than the roadsters. I hope so for your sake... ;)
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http://sumpmagazine.com/
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I'm not sure it's actually a comp machine, probably just a modified roadster.
As Rex says, some of the East European competition bikes were super - I really liked the ISDT MZs. I was offered one cheap in the 70s but turned it down as I didn't (and still don't) like the left foot kickstart.
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I think it's rather nice - if not so much "ISDT" then more "enduro" than "trail". I'm not sue if they had any kind of reputation in off-road competition?
I have a 1956 Maico ISDT Replica, so I have a soft spot for this kind of thing. Good luck with it Kevin!
Leon
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This bike is really amazing to me, it has advanced technology that the Japanese and USA bikes had no clue of at that time. It is amazing because they were racing these in motocross in Hungary and Czechs and all over Europe back in the 50's and 60's when in USA we didn't know what motocross was. So these engineers were ahead of us. This long stroke 2 stroke engine was faster and lighter than the 4 strokes, the bike has a removable sub frame like you find on modern bikes today, the seat comes off with 2 wing nuts, it has a real air box inside the frame, it has an up-pipe, tank comes off with 1 bolt, the purpose of the lights was so you could ride to the race track which was common in Europe in those days. This is also the bike that won the cherry creek Pro Motocross national in the USA back in 1966, or 67... I really love this Bike! I need to start restoring, and searching for parts.
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Interesting bike, good luck with the restoration.
Cardan, I have 1981 Maico 250 enduro (bought new) too. Been a great bike and has always gotten me home from the bush.
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My favorite bike I owned was a 1978 Maico 450 Magnum II (A Full Wheel Smith Built Factory race Bike). That was back in 1979. Wish I had it now, who would have ever known.
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A bit of a Maico brotherhood... I quite fancy this little one http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152402517445 but my main interest is in pre-WW1 bikes and I have excellent self control!
A friend of mine is currently rebuilding my Maico, so hopefully it will get some use soon. I'll need it when I'm old, but at the moment clutch, gears and brakes all seem a bit unnecessary.
Leon
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Have some updated research on this Bike. It was designed by Jack White and made in Hungary by Pannonia at the Csepel Motor Works factory, then imported into the USA by White Motorcycle Company in 1965. My Bike is a " 1965 White 250 enduro " Only 10 were ever actually allowed to enter the USA due to the bike not being certified by the EPA laws here in the USA. I talked with an 82 year old Man about the White Motorcycle company history. Of the 10 allowed to come into USA 6 were 250cc motocross bikes, 2 were 250cc enduro's, and 2 were 125 enduro's. So my Bike is 1 of only 2 made.
The other one is owned by the Man that purchased all the remaining bike's when the White Company went of business.
From what I have learned White Company purchased 100 Bikes, but the USA government only allowed 10 into the country and the other 90 bikes were abandoned in storage for a few years and then destroyed.
And of the 10 that were here the White Company never sold all of them while they were in business.
Found some original ads that show the bike when new.
br
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(http://here is part of a sales brocher)
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(http://1st pic is motocross version, 2nd pic is basically the same bike but enduro version, the 3rd pic is Miss White in the ad, she was responsible for having the red seat, and red colors added.)
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And of the 10 that were here the White Company never sold all of them while they were in business.
Not much of a claim to fame, but a really interesting story and a bike worth saving. Given the small number of machines, you're lucky to have a pretty complete machine to begin with. Enjoy.
Leon
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No one bought them here either; Pride and Clarke bought in a batch and were trying to flog them off for years; I think I only ever saw one, and that had been chucked back in as a part exchange, primarily because only Prides would take them in as PX.
In the midst of the great motorcycling days of the 1960s,when British bikes were the envy of all, Communist era Hungarian two strokes had no chance, and then at the end of the 60s came Honda..............Suzuki, and the rest.
As a lad I don't think "I've got a Pannonia" would have been one for attracting the girls, here it sounds a bit like an Italian snack.
Hey, you want Parmesan with that? ;D
As for fast east european motocross bikes probably the CZs would have pissed all over that Pannonia, rotten road bikes but the MX were really fast.
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I can not seem to get a spark out of the pannonia...cleaned the ignition slator, coil wire, I removed the ignition switch so I have to jump the wires.
I had the flywheel off and noticed there is no chuck key on the crank shaft? not sure how to line it up? but it still should spark.
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Ummmm.... :-X
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Bring the piston to the top of the bore and turn the flywheel until the points just open, then tighten the flywheel nut. This should be close enough to get it running and you can tune it from there.
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Is it a flywheel magneto system, or does it require a battery to run? Maybe the flywheel system is for a generator, and the ignition circuit is really the battery (recharged by the generator), and a coil, timed by the points.
There are many different systems, but for an off-road bike of this age it might be reasonable to expect to find a flywheel magneto system with points? In that case is the points cam part of the flywheel? If so, timing is not too bad because there are two things that have to happen together: the magneto system has to be at its maximum flux point just as the points are opening, and the points have to open just at the right time - say 17-20 degrees before the piston reaches top dead centre.
I have to say that not having a key on a flywheel magneto is pretty strange. Usually the flywheel would be fixed to the crank shaft at a very specific angle (so that the the maximum flux point happens at said 17-20 degrees BTDC) then there would be some method of moving the points around to give fine adjustment of the timing.
If there is really no key way, then I'd guess the timing is set by moving the flywheel around on its taper. Or more likely it's just a generator, and the ignition circuit is battery point and coil.
Maybe photos would help.
Leon
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No battery on this bike, fly wheel mag and points. I did set piston at tdc, and rotated backward about 2 inches (maybe around 17 degrees...the points are closed at tdc and begin to open right after that. I found 2 marks on the case above the flywheel about 2 inches apart from each other. I think the timing should be good enough, but no spark at all. I have 3 white wires coming out of the ignition slator, maybe I am not jumping them correctly? or I have a bad coil/ignition slator? maybe I can take some pics next time.
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I think you'll need to get help from someone who knows what they're doing.
Leon
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Or even attempt to find some info, like a manual or service sheet?
It's all just poke and hope otherwise.
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Hey amigo! I know you! you wrote under my youtube video about a couple of parts you are in need for this Pannonia! you still need them? I am waiting for your response!
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Not me Christian...if it's me you're talking to.
I don't have a Pannonia and never will have. The last Commie-Bloc stroker I had was an MZ many years back as everyone said how really good and well-made they were.
Trouble is everyone talks shite, and the crude POS was sold on in a month or so.
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I would say its lucky you have points,so its not some early solid state ignition.Firstly,do you have magnetism in the flywheel? Should easily pull in a spanner or other bit of iron.If thats strong,I would suspect the capacitor.They dont last all that long.Get a new one from a car ignition set (old type car),the coil is easily tested with a small battery,once the capacitor is working.If the coil is cactus,you can still use the points for a battery/coil system to get it mobile.You can generally find a coil ,and other bits in lawnmower engines,the pole pieces will need to match the curvature of the flywheel closely.Test the timing with a light,just looking aint very reliable.30-40 ignition advance needed.The other reason twostrokes wont go is leaking/hard/cracked crankshaft seals.