classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: The Pheasant Plucker on January 05, 2018, 11:27:23 AM
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Can anyone shed any light on these two makes, the Massey Arran I have is a 1921 with a 350 Jap engine and the Massey is a 1927 with a 550 Blackburne engine.
I have scoured the internet and found all there is to offer in that direction.
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Yes. What would you like to know?
Leon
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You want more !!
(all credits to Oliver Twist)
http://cybermotorcycle.com/euro/wikig/Massey.html
(http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/classics-m/images/Massey-1922-1245.jpg)
Why not start the ball rolling - perhaps a short technical precis of your bikes, and some good pics ?
Some of the contributors to this forum have done just that with their own machines,
if you follow the links - like Leon above. (although not necessarily with Massey bikes)
If the book on these hasn't been written yet, then maybe its time it was, or a start anyway.
??
and who better than someone who owns one of each ?
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Pity the enquirer hasn't responded. Seems like Massey and Massey Arran were really small players. I found they had a stand at the 1920 Motor Cycle Show but not at the 1924 Show. The Motor Cycle Index lists Massey-Arran for 1921-24 inclusive and gives model details but they barely get a mention in the weeklies of the day. The loud and clear message is they were one of many motor cycle assemblers in the post World War 1 period using all proprietary engines, gearboxes, forks, and so on but like everyone else couldn't make enough money at it to make it worthwhile.
At least this makes for an easy restoration. A 350 JAP engine is a 350 JAP engine no matter what make of bike it is fitted in and the same goes for his Blackburne engine as well. Plus of course they used the usual Sturmey Archer or Burman gearboxes of the day which again makes life much easier.
All in all a Massey- Arran would make a nice change from the usual round of Notron, Triumph and BSA's with the added advantage you wouldn't have the usual teeth sucking anorak coming up to you telling you what's wrong with your bike. You know the sort, "Ooooohh, they didn't cadmium plate the jelly sprocket until engine number so and so, you know, and look, you've fitted the thrumble stick one notch too high!" .
Cheers,
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I don't know whether I'm lucky or unlucky, but I've never met this mythical rivet-counter yet.
Nearest I've had is some old duffer asking when Harley stopped making that Indian model....
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I'm afraid I have, the best one was a pillock who explained to me at great length that my bike was not 'original', and to back up his assertion showed me a picture in a marque history of my make of bike to show how wrong it was.
Joke was it's my bike in that picture, with reg no blanked out.
needless to say the pillock was some 20+ student type who had read all the issues of the modern bike mags and was therefore an "expert."
Another good one was the $%^ who took me to task when I criticised the Rudge I had just restored, [horrible bike] he knew all about Rudges, no he had never owned one but his mate had one.
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Massey Arran were at one time in residence in Alvechurch Road, West Heath, Birmingham.
I believe it was just after Triple H stopped production round about 1923/4. (of interest to me as I have a Triple H, but don't have a M-A).
One of the 'H's of Triple H, a Mr Hobbis stayed on to become Massey Arran's works manager.
Not sure when M-A folded, but evidently they had moved to Blackburn by then.
Info from the late Bob Currie VMCC Journal April 1970.
Have you looked through the early 1920s issues of the Motor Cycle online?
https://archive.org/search.php?query=the%20motor%20cycle
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That's a very handy resource - many thanks.
Although I'm surprised the Mortons evil empire hasn't jumped on it!
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Thanks for all the comments relating to my query, will post pictures in a few days time
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Picture of the Massey
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Nice looking machine.
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And it goes as well as it looks and will be used for the first time this summer on a number of events up here in Scotland, none of my bikes are for "show only"
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Hi All,
The Massey looks to be fitted with an engine almost identical to the 1920 version that I rebuilt a couple of years ago for a "Blackburne" motorcycle
I would need to go and read through the Blackburne parts books to see if they still used the same plain bearing
big end and mains by 1927?
Or did Massey just buy old stock Blackburne engines?
I know of another Blackburne motorcycle where the owners Father took the bike as a trade in some time in the 20'swith a kaput engine!!,
The Father bought a complete new engine from Blackburne,
The lot sat and parts were lost over the years :(
A few years ago I helped the owner with some patterns and parts to get the bike together
Imagine the thrill of hearing a brand new 1920's engine fire up for the first time ;D
John
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Hi John,
Can you order me a new 8hp Blackburne v-twin for my c1921 Victor Blackburne? That would solve a few problems!
My bike was built - assembled if you prefer - in Adelaide, using the Blackburne twin, Burman heavyweight gearbox, frame lugs from R. J. Walker & Son in the UK, Druid fork, and so on. In many ways it's typical of Australian-made motorcycles of the early 1920s, but so far as I'm aware it's the only survivor with a Blackburne motor. The name Victor Blackburne was on the rusty tank, but the makers - J. N. Taylor in Adelaide - used JAP engines for most of their machines of the period.
I'm not sure that the side valve Blackburnes changed too much through the 1920s. Most of the development went into the ohv engines?
Cheers
Leon
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That certainly need 'assembling'. ;D
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And that photo was taken in the 1950s before a few more parts went missing!!
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Hi Leon,
Certainly a "Project" ::)
Blackburne as far as I can figure out used the same head on the front cylinder of the V twin on some of the singles, the singles need a curved inlet tube to match, The single and twin cylinders should be the same
A BSA long rod B33 piston is a good substitute, needing a little shortening on the skirt
I had to make a new split big end bush which was an interesting and time consuming exercise to fit the reground crank, bolted together with Austin 10 big end bolts :o on the single engine pictured
John
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I love projects!
I acquired this one many years ago from a (late) friend. He was asking around if anyone wanted a Blackburne twin, and although it sounded interesting I had enough stuff on my plate. Later I tripped over part of the frame in his shed. "What's this Chris?" "That's part of the Blackburne frame" "But it looks Australian-made?"
Now I've got a bit of an Australian-made thing going on...
We dug out the rest of it, and sure enough the Adelaide-made Victor Blackburne identity unfolded. So far as I can see there was only one 8 hp twin made, c1921, and it went to a guy called Lenny Brooks who was an active member of the MCC of South Australia. He rode it in club events, won a fuel economy trial, even raced it on Sellick's Beach.
The reason my friend had the bike is that he was disposing of the estate of an eccentric Adelaide collector/hoarder. He dismantled everything he had, and the story was that his wife used to wrap random bits in newspaper and throw them in the bin. One of the heads had gone missing, and while all the single and twin heads are similar, I can report that there are many subtly different versions!
Anyway, I now have a matching head, and most of the stuff needed to restore the bike, even a nice period 60 degree magneto. The motor was seized, but I've managed to free it up and get it apart. With luck I'll be able to re-use the cast iron pistons. The twin has a built-up crank with roller big ends. It's a nicely-made thing, and the flywheel is almost unbelievably huge.
Fun!
Leon
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Oh let's give Lenny (Leonard L Brooks) a bit of a plug - he deserves it!
Note that he was working for J. N. Taylor in Adelaide, South Australia, in the early 1920s, and it was Taylor who built bikes under the "Victor" brand - usually with JAP engines, but also some Blackburne singles, and at least one 8 h.p. twin.
Leon
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Hi Leon,
It's a nicely-made thing, and the flywheel is almost unbelievably huge.
Yes, They sure knew how to make a flywheel ::)
The one on my 350ohv is a fraction of the weight
John
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The term "bacon slicer" was sometimes used to describe the 250/350 ohv flywheel. The 8 hp side valve flywheel has nothing "bacon slicer" about it - all "mill stone"!!
If you wanted to combine the finesse of the 350 and the extra power of the twin, you could go for the 5-7 hp overhead valve fast tourist - quite a bike in 1924.
Leon
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Massey Arran were at one time in residence in Alvechurch Road, West Heath, Birmingham.
I believe it was just after Triple H stopped production round about 1923/4. (of interest to me as I have a Triple H, but don't have a M-A).
One of the 'H's of Triple H, a Mr Hobbis stayed on to become Massey Arran's works manager.
Not sure when M-A folded, but evidently they had moved to Blackburn by then.
Info from the late Bob Currie VMCC Journal April 1970.
Hi Keith,
Such an interesting story! There's a similar version told in "The British Motorcycle Directory" by Bacon & Hallworth, but they refer to the Hobbis Bros. concern as "Triplette" - presumably a typo and it should say Triple H? According to this version of the story, E. J. Massey left M-A some time during 1922, and founded the Massey company in Birmingham in January 1923.
M-A continued on through the Triple H connection, but faded away in 1924.
The Massey name (through the Birmingham connection) is said to have been acquired by R. L Jepson in 1924, and bikes produced "until the end of the decade". I doubt this; or if they did produce Massey bikes in the late 1920s it must have been in very small numbers. I had a quick look: no mention of Massey motorcycles at the 1927 or 1928 Show (1928 or 1929 models), just a rather sad advert for wheel repairs. And some "new motor cycle frames". I bet they had plans for those that didn't quite work out.
What year do you think the Massey is TPP?
Cheers
Leon
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Hi Leon,
The ohv V twins are a thing of beauty,
I have never see one in the metal though, I met a Man from Austria who said there is one in a Museum over there
I seem to remember reading about some make of motorcycle using one for the TT in the mid 20's ???
I had saved a couple of pics of Blackburne ohv V twin (Tomtit) and 3 cyl radial (Thrush) engines intended for light aircraft. The engines intended for aero use have steel cylinders
There's some video on You tube of a Chater Lea cycle car with a v twin Blackburne aero engine fitted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dithZaqwVNg
John
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Regarding your Victor Blackburne, try contacting Martin Shelley the VMCC Blackburne marque specialist, he has a wealth of knowledge on the subject of Blackburnes
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Hi Leon
I'm not totally confident on dates, but I think I remember reading in Tragatsch many years back, that Triple H came first, with the 250cc Morris engine. Although I got my bike without any documents/history, I've always thought of it as 1922.
At some point, 1 x Hobbis moved to Massey Arran. I think the story went that the other Hobbis and Horrell formed 'Triplette' using a different proprietary engine of 175cc. I don't think I've seen a picture of a Triplette, no idea if it looks similar to my bike (mine's the bottom version in the attachment). If M-A took over HHH premises, I don't know where the Triplette was assembled.
Keith
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Fascinating! The front fork on the Triple H bikes in the advert is the "Maplestone". These were designed and built in Melbourne, Australia before WW1 by A. N. (Norm) Maplestone. After the war he took the design to the UK where it was at first built by Precision Gauges Ltd in Birmingham as the "Maplestone Cantilever Fork". The design was sold to Webb c1922 and was the basis of their very successful fork.
Does your bike have the Maplestone fork Keith? A little bit of history.
Cheers
Leon
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It sure does! It may have come to me with:
the wrong engine
the wrong gearbox
incorrect wheels
but it did have Maplestone front forks.
I've only ever seen one other set sold on ebay about 18 months back, that were for a larger bike.
The guy selling had never heard of Maplestone.
More info/pics at www.http://vinvetmotorcycle.simplesite.com/432421719
I knew it was an Ozzy design, but I'd no idea they were being made pre WW1.
Cheers Keith
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Whilst serving in WWI Norm Maplestone met and married the daughter of FE Baker, the manufacturer of Precision engines pre WWI, the Beardmore Precision afterwards and finally the Villiers powered Baker.
Mr Maplestone came home with new wife plus a couple of Barr & Stroud sleeve valve engines. JFerg can give chapter and verse on this and I believe has even been bailed up by a Maplestone descendant trying to do a family history.
It's all go in the early motorcycle world isn't it. Far more fun than just riding a clean, reliable and utterly boring modern bike that you can only polish.
Cheers,
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E.J.Massey left Massey Arran and went to F.J.Coopers where they produced the Massey. Early in 1924 he sold out to R.L.Jepson. He was then briefly with H.R.D in late 1924 and early 1925