classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => Identify these bikes! => Topic started by: JFerg on January 10, 2018, 09:15:13 PM
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Who can help identify this machine? Not much is known; it's a Czech registration, a photo taken in Czech. Electric lighting and the overall style suggest late twenties or early thirties, but the 500cc Barr and Stroud sleeve valve engine is from 1924. There is a name on the tank, just not enough that I can read.
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Very stylish looking bike - that front guard is quite distinctive on it own.
Quite a lot of brakes for 1924 too, although could be from a later year, and earlier engine.
Didn't you have the production records for B&S, or was that just part of them ?
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I have the sales records for B&S, and from that have extracted a fairly complete record of engine production. It's not 100%, however.
Two 500cc engines were sent to Prague. The photo is of a Czech bike, taken in Czech, so might be the destiny of one engine.....
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Frame and overall style looks like a OEC of about 1926 to me.
Regards,
Helmut
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Hi Helmut and All,
I thought OEC at first look, front lower of the frame and centre stand being similar
BUT
The the drive chain is not on the "correct" side for a British bike ??? they are almost always on the left side
??
John
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If only that photo was a bit clearer, the name on the tank is nearly readable till the pixels lose it.
Obviously a pillion rider in those shoes!
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The gearbox is a crossover type; the input is on the left, output on the right, yet it has a kickstart so is obviously a purpose made motorcycle gearbox. A Hurth?
The frame has hints of Praga and ABC about it, but only hints, and the centre stand is really unusual for that era.
Looks like an Enfield rear sprocket, hence an Enfield wheel in "backwards".
Headlight arrangement and mounting is quite French of the era.
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Of course there is no obligation for a Czech registered bike to have been made in Czechoslovakia?
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It might have two-times the number of regulation wheels, but have you got this one on your list JFerg? I suppose we could call it the Davies Cycle Car, and the article comes from the Melbourne Herald, in August 1928. I suppose the Barr and Stroud motor would have been one of the "loose" motors, rather than from a dismantled bike?
[Edit: Just realised there's only wheel at the back, so change "two-times" to "one-and-a-half-times"! Edit the edit: ah, there are 4 wheels if you look at the whole photo!!]
Cheers
Leon
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Most Barr & Stroud engines came 'loose' to Australia Leon. Only a few appeared here already in a bike. I suspect JFerg could pretty well nail down this one as they say it's the 1000cc vee twin.
Mont Albert is very much my neighbourhood. I'll have to see if I can find out more about J J Davies from the local hysterical society.
Where did you get the photo? I presume you found it through Trove? The exact date and page number would be useful. I can then tackle the State Library direct for a decent quality copy.The Library is so understaffed for best results you need to hold them by the hand all the way through. They're willing but drowning.
Cheers,
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Hi 33d6,
Oh it's a cute thing! I do like a good cycle car.
JFerg and I recently discovered that quite a number of "Coventry B&S" motorcycles came in to Western Australia, complete with B&S engines, so in Australia we had both B&S bikes and loose engines.
I have method in my file names: yyyy-mm-dd-papername, so in this case 1928-08-20-herald-melbourne.jpg translates to the Herald, 20 August 1928. I don't usually use page numbers - I've found in the past that the Adelaide newspapers had several editions per day, and sometimes articles were moved.
Getting better photos is tough. In this case the Trove scan is pretty good, and a scan from the original newspaper wouldn't be too much better. At the State Library of South Australia, processing for Trove involved separating pages, and the papers were then properly packaged and put into "deep storage". I think I paid $60 to get a paper out last time I wanted a photo, but in that case the Trove scan was total rubbish. The staff at the library were amazed that I had been able to convince the powers that be to get the relevant paper out at all, and it was only because I convinced them that I was doing serious research, and the Trove scan was not fit for purpose.
Since the Herald is still around, I wonder if they still have an archive of photos that goes back to 1928? Now that would be interesting.
Cheers
Leon
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Davies lived at 7 Zetland Road, Mont Albert. Maybe you can see if he's home? If not, check the crumbling shed at the bottom of the garden...
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The original 7 Zetland Rd house is long gone unfortunately. For a moment I was hoping it could be our house as I’ve been told our garage housed a Minerva during WWll and as a boy a local VVMCC member remembered the owner carefully cranking it over to keep the sleeves free. It wasn’t much of a leap to hope he was the local sleeve valve nut and he started out building his own cycle car. No such luck though.
I have found out the Davies were the local estate agents. I’ll keep digging.
Cheers,
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What a pity that thought didn't stand up to scrutiny - it would have been a classic story.
On the sleeve-valve-motors-in-Melbourne theme: If a Barr and Stroud and Minerva - with full length sleeves controlling the ports - was called a sleeve valve, what was the Peugeot effort - with very short sleeve - called?
"Cuff valve"! The late Jack Nelson owned one, as a young man in Melbourne just after the war. Nice car.
Cheers
Leon
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Ive heard said that B&S motors were very difficult to get the port timing right,and often refused to run after repair...years ago I had a Willys Knight 66 of 1930 vintage,because it had but one timing shaft,things were easy-ish.I "found" the car because I worked at Repco,and the owner had sent the motor in from the bush for overhaul,and was quoted a massive sum.......a year later the motor was still sitting in the shop,and so I found the owner and bought the car......I managed to get the reco done in stages for free....some was pretty out of the ordinary,the steel sleeves had to be flame sprayed with babbit,and ground to size....In those days Repco regularly remetalled vintage car (and diesel) big ends.....After the reco,the motor ran real well and was completely silent,but used bulk oil....like 5 gallons in a 200 mile rally.....It took a lot of miles for the motor to settle down.....I had been warned about this by the old timers at Repco.
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Not much B&S content here, but we've followed along behind a little Daimler Knight on a veterans rally, and it ran along very nicely and smokelessly. Chatting about it afterwards, he said he'd modified it, I think with something somehow related to a Suzuki (port timings ?) and used (smokeless) modern 2 stroke oil. We waz imprezzed !
No need to remind folks that there was some very big and powerful sleeve valve aero engines to come out of WW2. Its amazing how little mechanical noise there is with no valve gear thrashing about - which operationally gave some of them a considerable advantage.
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There are sleeve valves and sleeve valves.
Knight and Minerva used two sleeves reciprocating with the piston in the middle. The ports are small, like letterbox slots, and the wear is concentrated.
B&S, Bristol, Napier and RR used single sleeves where the action is an elliptical path, with large ports, rapid openings, and good spread of lubricant which also spread the wear over a very large area. The single sleeve aero engines were the most powerful spark ignition engines ever built, rendered obsolete by jet turbines. Where poppet vale aero engines generally had a 500 hour service life, the single sleeve valve engines had a 1500 hour interval. If single sleeve valves had anywhere near the gazillions of engineer-hours applied to them that poppet valves have had, there's be a lot more about.
I owe you an apology, Leon. I've been severely tangled in life and other issues of late, and not had the chance to properly study the extracts you sent me. I will get there, come May I will have shed a major workload.
Thank you for your Herald research. As 33d6 suspects, I can postulate the engine number of this machine. Norm Maplestone bought two B&S V twins. He also reputedly had a shop in Kew, next to Mont Albert. Tantalising.
That Czech bike is probably a "Kopra", too.
JFerg
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Having explored the innards of one of JFergs B&S engines in company with him I can't really see how one could say they were difficult to get the port timing right but I'd certainly agree that just because you know how a cam operates to push open an inlet or exhaust valve doesn't mean you totally and fully understand the sleeve valve at first glance. It does require some degree of thought and some people find thinking very tricky.
I also think you can't really compare a double sleeve valve engine like the Knight to a single sleeve valve engine like the B&S. In one move the single sleeve valve reduces engine complexity by half thus markedly reducing any tendency for the famed sleeve valve smoking and excessive oil use. You have to remember the great majority if not all smoking sleeve valve stories all relate to double sleeve valve engines. B&S motorcycle engines have exactly the same total loss oiling system as every other motorcycle engine of their day and use no more nor no less oil than any other and smoke no more nor no less than any other.
And yes, R, two stroke oil is very good in sleeve valves as JFerg will confirm. His is well pleased with it.
It's a pity the sleeve valve engine didn't receive a fraction of the effort and development as the 'umble poppet valve but it didn't and we now have a fascinating side story of what could have happened but didn't. It keeps us entertained doesn't it.
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You're obviously in Melbourne, John, as are 33d6 and myself.
I have a couple of 500cc B&S engines, one of which is going. If you're interested, drop me a line johnferguson@iinet.net.au
JFerg
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Hi JFerg and others,
Rather than start a new thread I thought I's resurrect this one, since I have a question about sleeve-valve motorcycles in Australia and there's already some guff above.
Rob Saward and I are doing a new edition of the "A to Z of Australian-Made Motorcycles" - there are 530+ entries so far, plenty to keep us busy.
One unconfirmed machine is the Arblaster, said to have been made by Mr Arblaster in Western Australia.
I have found is an article from 1933 saying that E. F. Arblaster designed a new type of sleeve-valve engine, and that it was being tested in an experimental motorcycle in the UK.
I wonder does anyone know anything about Mr Arblaster's engine?
JFerg: I know it's a long shot, but we know there were Barr and Stroud sleeve-valve engines in WA in the 1920s. I don't suppose Arblaster's name can be linked in to these?
If Mr Arblaster built a motorcycle in Australia, particularly with an engine of his own design, we could give it an entry in the book. However if the engine and motorcycle testbed were assembled in the UK to his design, I guess we'll have to leave him out.
Cheers
Leon
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There was a B&S powered bike for sale about 10 years ago,IIRC,it was locally made ,and for sale on either ebay or just bikes.I think it was a 350,and the price was very high for what it was.
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Wasn't that the Ever Onward ?
Actually a Barr & Stroud engine in a Norton. And the subject of much of the previous discussion here on B&S engines...
https://scontent-dfw5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/16e77995066ab1243856260f9f1c6154/5D650894/t51.2885-15/e35/28751236_541434426240142_6236732266903502848_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.cdninstagram.com&ig_cache_key=MTczNDcwODE5MzQwMDg1NzI4Ng%3D%3D.2 (https://scontent-dfw5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/16e77995066ab1243856260f9f1c6154/5D650894/t51.2885-15/e35/28751236_541434426240142_6236732266903502848_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.cdninstagram.com&ig_cache_key=MTczNDcwODE5MzQwMDg1NzI4Ng%3D%3D.2)
Incidentally, B&S also made binoculars, and gunsights for Hurricanes etc in WW2.
A natural progression (?).
https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/ba79c35bb6bafacb4384a4b314c8dfc9/5D77DAE1/t51.2885-15/e35/13628376_1412570595436073_2027454468_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com
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Ever Onward has the much more rare 500cc engine fitted. It is essentially comprises a Norton frame, with I think Druid forks, Coventry Eagle wheels, Douglas mudguards and a Sturmey Archer gearbox containing a B&S engine made in 1923. The flat tank is unique to Ever Onward. Having accompanied it on several expeditions I can tell you it runs exceedingly well and is a surprising mile eater. Unlike the average 1923 500 single most of which were very ordinary sidevalves (ohv were mostly sporting only at that time) it is remarkably quiet mechanically and remains very clean. Essentially the engine was bought and never used until built in to Ever Onward in the late 60's early 70's. JFerg is it's fourth owner and we vintage riders in Victoria have been lucky enough to observe how a B&S sleeve valve performs from brand new. It is very impressive. Not perfect but much better than expected and light years ahead of the sleeve valve urban myths.
As far as the Arblaster engine is concerned multi port single sleeve valves were made by B&S and raced in particular by Bert Kershaw. His particular one was known as the Octopus due to the multiplicity of ports. The main interest with Mr Arblaster's engine is the half speed sleeve. I'd like to explore that further.
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I suppose Arblaster had patents to protect his design - no doubt they would describe his idea in detail.
Re Ever Onward: its interesting how the bike that Warren put together is very representative of how a 1920s-assembled B&S would have looked. There were a small number of B&S-engined bikes built in Australia in the period, and the photo below shows a GCS from Melbourne. Perhaps the sleeve-valve experts can identify the model of the B&S engine?
The A to Z book is a bit daunting, but getting there. One problem is that one hour spent on each of 530 entries is about 4 months at 40 hours per week! Most entries require - and deserve - a good deal more than one hour, so it's a big job.
Mr Arblaster, for example, has already consumed several hours, but unless we can find something to suggest he built the motorcycle testbed for his engine in Australia (or even that he built the engine in Australia) he probably won't even get a mention in the book!
Cheers
Leon
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Yep, during 1933 Edward Francis Arblaster, 26 Fifth Ave, Mount Lawley, Western Australia, Engineer, patented his engine in (at least) Britain, France, Germany, Spain and the US. Probably in Australia too, but old Australian patents are a bit fiddly to research.
He was pretty serious, but did it go into production anywhere?
Cheers
Leon
(Add 30 minutes to the time sheet for the Arblaster non-entry!! Unless we can find he built a motorcycle in Australia...)
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There is a more interesting sleeve valve called the "Fischer ...Magic -crescent valve".........manufactured in Zurich from 1908 to 1914.......invented by watchmaker Martin Fischer............produced .apparently by a "Turicum Co"............there is one example in the Zurich transport museum,and also a cutaway salesmans sample.......The valve was in two halves (of a liner),each reciprocating independently.............200-400 cars made ,before war work became much more profitable.
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Hi Leon,
An outside flywheel like that identifies the engine as a 350. I can’t remember all the various engine model number JFerg has them all and can also differentiate the various marks of each as well. There are various minor differences between the individual marks of the 350 but nothing earth shaking.
Being a proprietary engine available to be fitted into the purchasers choice of motorcycle meant that B&S provided a surprising amount of information to prospective buyers, for example, right down to how much clearance was required to ensure easy spark plug removal. They are very well documented engines.
The great majority of B&S engines were 350’s. I can’t remember the exact figures.
I don’t think much of Mr Arblaster’s design. To my mind a power sapping worm drive sleeve would negate any multi port advantage but until some enthusiast builds one we will never know will we.
Cheers,
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Any US patent is searchable by the inventors name .......you usually need a full name ,but something uncommon shouldnt be hard to find.......if indeed it was actually patented,and not applied for and rejected. .................you will notice G.Brough stooped to the device of applying for patents that he had no hope of getting issued,and then advertized "Patent pending",or "Patent applied for" .
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About the same time as the Arblaster patent ,Ricardo &Co patented and licensed a simplification of the Barr and Stroud system ,do ing away with skew gears altogether and using a link driven by a single eccentric and lever,achieved the same rotary motion of the sleeve and applicable to inline multicylinder engines ........engines were built by Peter Brotherhood &Co ,and by Mirrlees ,Bickerton and Day..............The Mirrlees engines were quite common once .as they were a WD contract item genset .....and built in hundreds.................incidentally ,the Day mentioned was Charles Day,who invented the crankcase compression two stroke .
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The GCS of Cardan's photo reputed was once the possession of Harry Beanham..... or at least the photo was!
It's an early 350cc WA6. The B&S records only reveal four 350's sent to Australia; one to Roy Hill and sons in Adelaide, one to Mair and Co (later McEwan's Hardware) in Melbourne, one to P&R Williams in Sydney (makers of the Waratah), and the last is just a consignment number, so I have no idea where it went. It was in company with two 500's and a V twin, so probably to an aspiring maker.
However...... Stott's in Fremantle sold B&S engined machines, very likely from "Coventry Bicycles", but always advertised as "B&S". Registration records suggest that at least a dozen where in use in Perth and environs in period. Stott and his mate Freddie Hughes took a pair of 350 B&S machines to Brisbane, and rode home via Sydney, Melbourne, and Adelaide without incident.
By my reckoning, B&S made around 1700 motorcycle engines. 1500 of the 350's, 120 of the 500's and around 70 V twins.
Norm Maplestone bought two V twins, and that Mont Albert cycle car is probably one of them. Despite having a history as a maker (of the "Maple"), I've not been able to find any evidence that Norm built his engines into bikes.
In the car world, Argyll were the only single sleeve valve adherent. Making an in-line single sleeve valve engine is complex, and Argyll's first solution was a skew gear set up to drive each sleeve. Single sleeve valve radial engines were a doddle, if an artwork, in comparison to an in-line engine. The skew gears were replaced in later engines by the "wobble shaft" that john.k refers to. This was a long shaft not unlike a crankshaft, but the "big end" bearings on the throws was not parallel with the main bearings, imparting a twisting motion as it rises and falls. Elegant, but a tricky machining exercise. One exists in Melbourne, and I've ridden in the car; smooth, silent, torquey.
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And the original mystery bike is a Praga, made in Prague, of course.
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Response to R's comments re B&S and binoculars.
B&S are a precision optics company; they still exist as a subsidiary of Pilkington Glass. Their primary business was binoculars, telescopes, periscopes and range-finders. Come 11 November 1918, this business just ceased, so they looked for other things to do. The proprietary engine business was booming, so they took a crack at it.
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Single sleeve valve radial engines were a doddle, if an artwork,
"I think the timing is out one tooth ..."
http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/RCAFRoyalCanadianAirForceMuseum/AircraftEngines/images/11BristolHercules734.jpg
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Ha Ha. Which tooth?
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Hey JFerg and others,
Continuing the theme of "Barr and Stroud engines in Australian-made motorcycles", I have another entry.
In October 1922, Elliott Bros in Adelaide - best known for their Villiers-engined lightweights - advertised an "Elliott Barr & Stroud, 3 h.p., £110"
Do we know how many B&S engines went to Elliott? Or was this a lone beast?
Cheers
Leon
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I can get very close, Leon, but not quite claim the cigar.
One engine, #290, was sent to Adelaide. It was ordered on 12 May, 1922, and despatched on the 19th, to Roy Hill & Co, in Adelaide.
Subsequent research showed that Roy Hill & Co became Roy Hill and Sons, and were suppliers to the Adelaide motor trade. They had a link to Empire Cycles through Charles Ramsay, who apparently was a manager of both firms. No demonstrable link to Elliots, although the dates match very nicely. Despatch Anniesland in May, arrive Adelaide August or September.
Would be fairly sure it was a one-off.
However..... Warren maintained that Allparts had a V twin B&S as a window display circa 1937. A then 13 year old engine thought worthy of a window display. Hard to imagine it then being scrapped; is it under an Adelaide bench somewhere?
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Thanks for the quick reply.
I had to look up Roy Hill: no relation to James Hill, one of the bigger motor houses. But he had a long history of high-level positions with first Eyes and Crowle, Ltd, then Cornell, Ltd, so he would have been well connected in Adelaide. No doubt he, or one of his reps, knocked on the door of Elliott Bros and offered them a 350cc B&S, which they built up into a bike.
An article, on the same day that the B&S was advertised, listed the B&S as one of three bikes entered by V. P. Elliott for the Sellick's Beach races a few days later. He also entered an Elliott JAP and a New Imperial JAP, and it seems he didn't race the B&S. Another Elliott rider also entered a B&S (also an Elliott JAP and BigX, for which Elliott were agents), but I'd be sure there was only one Elliott B&S, and the multiple entries before the race meeting were convenience.
Re the B&S twin in Adelaide in the 1930s: sorry I have no knowledge, but I promise to let you know if I come across it!
Cheers
Leon
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More jigsaw pieces, thanks Leon.
Can you point me to that article, I need a copy of that in my file.
cheers,
JFerg
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The two snippets attached.
The spectrum of engines (and gearboxes) built into Australian-made motorcycles is quite amazing: more-or-less any engine or gearbox from the UK and the US - and some from Europe - found its way into the local product at some stage. B&S and oil-cooled Bradshaws were not exactly "popular" in the early 1920s, but they were built up into quite a number of different makes of bike. Still, the only Australian B&S photo I have is of a GCS-B&S single in Melbourne. Any other photos?
Cheers
Leon
By the way, the wording "A SUPER Elliott" in the advert is not linked to the later (post WW2) "Super Elliott" brand of bicycles here in Adelaide. SUPER is just a random advertising adjective, like "A SUPERIOR Elliott" in another advert.
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I have that Harry Beanham photo of the 350 GCS, too. It's the only photo I have of a B&S engined bike in Oz, other than Ever Onward, of course. And New Onward.
Two 350cc B&S came to Melbourne. One went to Mairs, ironmongers who became the McEwan hardware empire, the other went with two 500's and a V twin 1,000cc to consignee unknown, but Stillwells must be a good chance. Norm Maplestone bought two V twins, but there's no record of him building a bike out of them. If he had done, it would have been reported. A B&S V twin cycle car emerged in Surrey Hills (Melb) in 1928, then vanished, but that would have to be one of Maplestone's engines. Norm McCubbin reportedly had a V twin B&S as a mantel-piece ornament, which one I don't know. His wife finally protested, and it went to Moorabbin tip in 1965. Despite extensive excavations by Warren, it's probably still there.
In Sydney, P&R Williams bought a 350 and a V twin 1,000cc, but there are no reports that I have found of a B&S Waratah.... A second Sydney shipment was a 500 and a V twin 1,000cc. The 500 found it's way to Wilcannia, and thence Ever Onward. No record of the twin.
A load of 350's went to Perth. All the loose engines went to the WARailways. Stotts in Fremantle moved a number of 350 B&S engined Coventry Bicycles machines, but they were imported as complete machines. Registration records suggest at least a dozen were on the roads over there. They were registered as "B&S", or "Coventry B&S".
All jigsaw pieces gratefully accepted......
JFerg
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There's some pretty good "B&S in Australia" stuff in this thread!
As part of research for the book, I've done some work on A.N. (Norm) Maplestone. He built the Maple motorcycles prior to WW1, but when he came back after the war - and a stint with F. E. Baker's Precision works - it doesn't look like he made more bikes. He did some work promoting the Beardmore Precision - including racing a "TT" version that I've yet to see - and he ran the Balaclava Garage & Engineering Works in Melbourne. The business seemed to be mostly for repairs to cars and bikes, but of course he could have built up a bike or two. Back in 1914 he gave evidence to an inquiry into duties on imported motorcycles, where he pointed out that building motorcycles in Australia was not particularly profitable, and that by 1914 "he built very few of them". Later Maplestone Motors was in Elizabeth St, then Latrobe St, selling Beardmore Precision motorcycles. The business closed in 1927, with 3 Beardmores in the final sale, but no mention of B&S that I've seen. Where were the Maplestone B&S engines sent? The Elizabeth St premises were damaged in a fire... [Edit: It was 205 Latrobe St damaged by fire - see below.]
I have no real idea of why so many B&S engines and bikes went to WA; I can only guess that the local agents over there very enthusiastic! In addition to the Coventry B&D/Coventry B&S bikes, and the loose engines, there was also at least one Diamond fitted with a 3 h.p. B&S, handled by M. S. Brooking & Co in Perth in 1923.
"Coventry" is an interesting name that has come up in another context. T.W. Henderson in Sydney - maker of Carbine bicycles and motorcycles - advertised Coventry JAPs from about 1911 until 1917, and at least one Coventry Precision. The book "Coventry's Motorcycle Heritage" by Damien Kimberly discusses Coventry B&D, Coventry B&S and various other things with Coventry in the name, but has no likely candidate for the Coventry JAPs and Coventry Precisions that "landed" in Sydney. Sigh.
Cheers
Leon
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The two Maplestone V twins were definitely exported, with the payment having been received on 15th October 1924. Given Maplestone's profile, we'd expect that had he done anything with them, or even canvassed a plan, it would have been reported in the Melbourne press.
The engines would have arrived in Melbourne early in 1925. Mapletone's workshop at that stage was the ground floor of a three-storey building in LaTrobe street, the whole lot destroyed by fire in July. There was a plater's shop above, and the report is that the whole of the machinery and stock was destroyed. You'd assume those engines went with it, yet one turns up in Surrey Hills....
There's an explanation for the sales of B&S in WA. Motorities, in Wolverhampton, offered the "DeLuxe" range, which was built from whatever they could gather up from liquidation sales of true manufacturers. The father of AE Bradford, the principal, had been to Perth at some stage, saw a market opportunity, and Motorities sought to exploit it. Certainly they introduced the B&S engine to the WA Railways, and I suspect that the machines registered just as "B&S" were from Motorities. Perhaps there was some issue with "DeLuxe" as a brand in this market.
JFerg
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Hi JFerg,
I re-read the articles about the fire: first I realised it was 205 Latrobe St and not Elizabeth St (as I said above) that was damaged, and I'm pretty sure that while the ground floor of Maplestone Motors was damaged at the back where a brick wall tumbled from the gutted building behind them, the Maplestone building was not itself destroyed. In fact the firefighters were on the first floor of the Maplestone Building while fighting the fire in Knox Lane. Sadly a firefighter was killed by a falling bricks - the first fatality in the history of the Metropolitan Fire Brigade.
There are a few adverts at 205 Latrobe St after the fire, but later in the year the address was 213 Latrobe St, so maybe 205 was being repaired.
The B&S twin engines most likely survived the fire.
The area around Knox Lane/Little Lonsdale St/Latrobe St is interesting, lying between the old motorcycle mecca of Elizabeth St and the State Library. Not much left now, but the old Shot Tower was saved and built into the large building that now covers the site. https://www.melbournecentral.com.au/visitor-info/our-heritage
Cheers
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By the way, the wording "A SUPER Elliott" in the advert is not linked to the later (post WW2) "Super Elliott" brand of bicycles here in Adelaide. SUPER is just a random advertising adjective, like "A SUPERIOR Elliott" in another advert.
Wrong. Doing the 'E's at the moment, and it turns out there is a twist to the story of Elliott motorcycles in Adelaide.
The standard story is that Elliott motorcycles were made by Elliott Bros: true before 1918, but in that year the two brothers went their own ways.
After 1918, Elliott motorcycles were made by Laurie Elliott at Payneham, trading as Elliott's Garage and Cycle Factory.
Brother Bert Elliott began to build Super Elliott bicycles at what was previously the Norwood branch of Elliott Bros. He continued to trade as Elliott Bros.
In 1922, Bert and another brother Vic opened a new branch of Elliott Bros in Gawler Place, Adelaide. Here they sold American Excelsior (Big X) motorcycles, and Super Elliott bicycles and motorcycles. So in fact the Barr and Stroud engine went from importer Roy Hill to Elliott Brothers in Gawler place, and the motorcycle was, in fact, a "Super Elliott Barr and Stroud" as advertised. Elliott Bros could have built it up (they had a cycle factory), or it may have been built up elsewhere in Adelaide.
I have adverts for Super Elliott Villiers and Super Elliott JAP, so it's likely that the advert for "Superior Elliott JAP" is for a Super Elliott JAP.
A new entry has been made for "Super Elliott".
The things you learn.
Leon