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Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: T100striumph on January 13, 2018, 02:20:14 AM

Title: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on January 13, 2018, 02:20:14 AM
Hi All,
First post from Dunedin New Zealand. I have a Model D that I purchased from a farmer for $15 ( 7 Pounds) about 40 years ago when I was 20 years old. Just starting the restore process, good things take time.
Motor has Serial number D4044 and gearbox has HJP - 2 and ENF-39. The bike has telescopic forks which from my readings would make it around 1947-8 when they were introduced by RE.  As it was sent to New Zealand I wondered if it was a bitza built by RE to get overseas funds post WW2. It is missing the clutch cover tin work, had a home made exterior cover. Was running when purchased.

I would like to know age if possible as the tele forks seem a bit odd, frame does not appear to have been modified.

Regards to all,
Neville

RE model J
REmodel G
Flying flea
Triumph t100s 1970
Honda CBR400RR 1988
Honda CBR600RR 2006
Aprilia RST 1000 2004
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: R on January 13, 2018, 04:00:20 AM
Welcome aboard !
Any chance of a pic of the whole bike - help prevents making an absolute howler from misunderstandings.

You may have seen the very recent discussion here about the 1951 Model S exported as part of a batch to Australia, and unknown to the historians. So yes, such things are possible.
Having Graham run those numbers through the RE dispatch records will likely shed some light on this too.

Is the clutch cover tinwork the same as for your G or J.?
A lot of military bikes came out to this neck of the woods, so such parts are not impossible to source. Have fun.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on January 13, 2018, 08:48:25 AM
Hi,
Many thanks, will have a close look at frame tomorrow and have a hunt for any numbers, will get a picture to you.
Neville
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on January 24, 2018, 08:45:56 AM
Hi,
Managed to get frame number Z0102?337, bit hard to read middle number has been damaged. Frame has very light plates welded at headstock. Photo's of frame and motor attached. Pic of my T100s 1970, I'm second owner purchased in 1973, always been road ready and I have done over 60,000miles on her.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: 33d6 on January 24, 2018, 09:41:27 AM
Those forks look remarkably BSAish to me. I'd swear I have an identical set from a C10-11 in my workshop which I intended to put on a Francis-Barnett. Unfortunately ancient bones and creaky joints are winning the battle. No Fanny-Bee battling iron for me.
Personally, as they are an excellent fork and came with the bike I'd keep them on. They will give a much better ride and navigation than any girder fork and are typical of what was done back in the day to keep a bike on the road. 
I'd retain the headstock bracing as well. The Poms tended to skimp on building some frames in the 1930's due to oddball taxation rules favouring bikes under a certain weight. They weren't really  sturdy enough for our roads although the easier hydraulic action of those forks will help a lot.
Best of luck,
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: mini-me on January 24, 2018, 09:52:39 AM
Yes those are BSA C12 forks from mid 50s to 1960 era
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: TGR90B on January 24, 2018, 10:19:02 AM
You would know. Have you still got yours?
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on January 24, 2018, 10:50:51 AM
Many thanks for the update on the forks, so it will be a bitsa. Based on the New Zealand Kiwi "fix anything" attitude the forks most likely modified after it arrived in NZ. I am interested in finding out what year the bike was sent to NZ and if the frame is for a model D.
There is a small oil tank between motor and gearbox, looks home made to me, has a block of wood as a space filler.
Regards
Neville
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: mini-me on January 24, 2018, 04:35:44 PM
You would know. Have you still got yours?

Yes.I love it a lot, so much that I thought I should log in to the C12 forum and see what good fellows I  could chat with there ;) ;) ;) ;) :o
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: chaterlea25 on January 24, 2018, 05:46:15 PM
Hi All
Just to throw  a further spanner in the works  ::)
I wonder if the frame number is Z C10 which would make that BSA as well
The front half of the frame has BSA features not to mind the forks fitting so nicely ???

 :-\
John
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on January 24, 2018, 06:22:07 PM
Hi John
Yes it would make sense that frame is BSA as well, I will have a close look at motor mounts to confirm these have been added to fit the RE motor. Thanks for your knowledge 
Neville
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on January 25, 2018, 05:13:00 PM
Hi John,
After a look at BSA frame numbers on the mighty web I have found that frame is BSA C10 or C11 from 1951.

Cheers
Neville
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: chaterlea25 on January 25, 2018, 05:51:05 PM
Hi Neville,
Hmm??? Ok the front half is BSA but next question is what is the rear half?
The BSA rear frame did not extend along under the engine and gearbox
The joint where the front and rear halves of the BSA frame meet that also takes the centre stand pivot
is a high wear point and causes a "hinge in the middle"  >:(

John
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: R on January 28, 2018, 09:05:32 AM
Ok the front half is BSA but next question is what is the rear half?

Assuming they haven't just been added/welded there, the tabs for the lower back mudguard mounts look like they could be Enfield, and several of the other tabs and brackets also look like they could be Enfield items. Enfield seat brackets onto the frame are quite distinctive - a closeup of one of them could be quite instructive.

So perhaps, with some investigation, the back half / lower frame could be Enfield (?).
They do bolt on in two separate halves.
It also looks like it has the lower tabs - and was made - for a rear stand.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: 33d6 on January 29, 2018, 02:50:29 AM
Am I allowed to ask what gearbox was fitted? BSA first fitted a three speed to that model and then upgraded to a much nicer four speed. Or does it have a four speed Albion?
Cheers,
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: R on January 29, 2018, 09:20:56 PM
The clutch partly visible in one of the shots above is for the 4 speed Albion that would have been originally fitted, but no gearbox is visible anywhere ? And those gearbox plates look somewhat un-Enfield, so were are guessing its been changed, perhaps to something BSA like you suggest.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on February 04, 2018, 04:46:20 AM
Hi,
It has the 4 speed Albion Box, have dismantled and have two new bearings to install,  looking to replace felt drive side seal with double lip replacement.
Neville
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on February 04, 2018, 04:52:09 AM
Hi All,
Next weekend is our Burt Munro rally in Invercargill Southland New Zealand, Burt's home town as featured in the movie The worlds fastest Indian. I meet Burt at the beach in1970's on a day that he popped the barrel of the crankcase on his Velocette. Have some photos that I will find and post to site.

Neville
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: TGR90B on February 04, 2018, 08:21:22 AM
A great film, with one of our best actors, although, I've read, it wasn't 100% accurate.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: murdo on February 05, 2018, 06:57:17 AM
Like most films, they leave a lot of the story out to fit it in the time allowed. There is a lot more to the story of 'old Burt' than just the Indian (like when he cut a Triumph crank and camshaft, turned them 45 degrees and welded back together) and his Velocette. He did (I think from memory) something like 14 trips to the USA, not all with the Indian, that the movie condensed into one trip.
If you can get a copy of the book it is a good read.
'One good run' (the legend of Burt Munro) by Tim Hanna.
ISBN 0-14-301974-0
Published by Penguin Books.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: 33d6 on February 06, 2018, 02:47:04 AM
Name any film that everyone agrees is 100% accurate. Itís entertainment, not history.
Cheers,
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: murdo on February 06, 2018, 06:04:08 AM
Ummm, ummm. Nope, cannot think of one.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: TGR90B on February 06, 2018, 08:56:16 AM
Planet Of The Apes?
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: 33d6 on February 06, 2018, 06:46:41 PM
Ahhh, so you knew my drill sergeant.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: Rex on February 06, 2018, 07:02:50 PM
Star Wars was accurate too. A load of bollix, but 100% accurate. ;)
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on February 07, 2018, 11:13:52 PM
Hi,
It has an Albion 4 speed box, have disassembled and prepared for replacing both bearings and currently looking for a double lip seal to replace the felt seal at drive end.

Neville

Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: R on February 08, 2018, 10:32:57 PM
Bearings these days often come with a very capable seal inbuilt (or 2), you can't find such a bearing ?

Installing such a bearing with 2 seals and using its own lube may well outlast the lubrication supplied in the original system. (Keeping the oil in the box to lube the gears etc, of course)
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: T100striumph on February 11, 2018, 07:55:25 AM
Thanks for the bearing hint, the replacement bearing has 2 seals so I will do as you suggest.
Cheers
Neville

Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: iansoady on February 11, 2018, 10:08:29 AM
I always use sealed bearings for wheels and where possible for sleeve gear bearings on gearbox. Sometimes with the latter it's a good idea to either use one with a single seal (obviously fitted on the outboard end) or take the inner seal off.

Some people advocate taking a seal off and packing with grease but I prefer to believe that the manufacturers know what they're doing. As I understand it, excess grease can cause churning and blow a seal off.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: murdo on February 11, 2018, 08:52:47 PM
I always like to lift the seals and see just how much (or how little) grease is in a bearing. Here we get SKF brand made in China and this is one I recently purchased to put in a front wheel. How long do you think it would have lasted at 60 mph?
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: L.A.B. on February 11, 2018, 10:06:43 PM
I always like to lift the seals and see just how much (or how little) grease is in a bearing. Here we get SKF brand made in China and this is one I recently purchased to put in a front wheel. How long do you think it would have lasted at 60 mph?


http://www.skf.com/uk/products/bearings-units-housings/super-precision-bearings/principles/lubrication/grease-lubrication/initial-grease-fill/index.html

Quote
Initial grease fill
Super-precision bearings operating at high speeds should have less than 30% of the free space in the bearings filled with grease.

Sealed bearings are filled with a high grade, low viscosity grease that fills ~ 15% of the free space in the bearing.
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: Rex on February 12, 2018, 09:03:50 AM
I always like to lift the seals and see just how much (or how little) grease is in a bearing. Here we get SKF brand made in China and this is one I recently purchased to put in a front wheel. How long do you think it would have lasted at 60 mph?

That's bizarre. In industry no-one would dream of pulling the seal off a bearing to see how much grease is in there.
Only a thin smear is ever needed, and that bearing will last a lot longer at 60 than your bike would!
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: iansoady on February 12, 2018, 10:09:39 AM
A ball bearing doesn't actually need much lubrication except for the cage.....
Title: Re: Royal Enfield Model D
Post by: murdo on February 12, 2018, 09:03:59 PM
Well maybe because I've grown up and worked with agricultural machinery where more grease will make it last longer, but I have always popped the seals and added a bit more grease to all bearings (every time I replace a tyre I add a bit more to the bearing) and in all the years and bikes have never had to replace a bearing yet. Maybe I have been doing it wrong compared to the text books, but that method has worked for me.