classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: marty 31 on July 28, 2018, 09:59:33 PM
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I have been offered a 1972 tiger 100, its a import with high style exhausts, it will have a close ratio gearbox and am wondering if its suitable for normal road use or will it be revving to high for pottering about at 60-70 mph and general road use?
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The revs at any speed in 4th are not related to the gear ratios,but to your final drive ratios.........in other words ,you can change the gearbox sprocket to suit your self............But a close ratio box can become a real problem if you expect to drive in traffic......In effect,you will have no first gear,and be starting in second gear ratio ....and slipping the clutch........If the motor is highly tuned with high CR and oversize carbies the bike will be a nightmare in traffic............
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The C range CR box (if this bike still has it) is well-suited to road use as it was more selling point than performance addition.
Anyway, if it was not to your liking it could be changed for a standard cluster in a morning and sold on. They're sort-after items.
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Buy it on price and condition. The late ones have no problem with high revs.
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Sure its a close ratio and not a wide one?
T100 tough old motor, not a bad bike at all. Handle well, good brakes compact size machine nice and light for old geezers.
I used to maintain a fleet of them for City London plod, worst things was swinging arm wear and crap electrical switch gear, easily fixed.
If it has single carb and a wide ratio or standard box it'll be a pussy cat compared to modern bikes.
Junk the high level exhausts for a high level 2 in 1.
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True, I recall that the export-only T100C's had "WR" (wide ratio) stamped on the gearbox.
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I can't recall any Meridan Triumph of any size equipped with a CR box; possibly the Thruxton T120 did.
Met Police Saints had wide ratio boxes, lower comp pistons, E3134 cams, single carbs which made them ideal for London traffic, very quick off the mark, tractable and unfussy. Mostly wouldn't reach 100mph, no point, they had nutters in V8 Rovers for that.
Used to make I chuckle hearing some of the BS spouted about super tuned ex plod bikes offered for sale.
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thanks for he help, I might be getting mixed up here, in could have been a wide ratio box, whats the difference? it defiantly has a single concentric carb
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Surely the terminology gives you the answer.
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If you like it just buy it and don't worry about the gear ratios it's unlikely they are anything other than standard road.
Probably you are getting the sellers bullshite or plain ignorance.
There's a lot of it about.
Incidentally, no-one "potters about" at those speeds on a 50 year old bike. If that's what you want, honkawayama thing is what you need.
I used to get newby optimists in the AMC club wanting to "cruise" at 70mph on a '50s 350.............not for long old lad, not for long.
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If you like it just buy it and don't worry about the gear ratios it's unlikely they are anything other than standard road.
Probably you are getting the sellers bullshite or plain ignorance.
There's a lot of it about.
Incidentally, no-one "potters about" at those speeds on a 50 year old bike. If that's what you want, honkawayama thing is what you need.
I used to get newby optimists in the AMC club wanting to "cruise" at 70mph on a '50s 350.............not for long old lad, not for long.
I don't find that answer a great lot of help, the reason I ask is just so iam not dumped with a bike that's revving its tits of at 50 mph and nothing short of a new gear box will fix it, that's all ???
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It won't be revving its tits off unless you drive it like that.
It's you that controls the revs. I wonder if you are confusing gear ratios as would be set by primary or final drive sprockets? For instance,a smaller engine sprocket and or a bigger rear wheel sprocket would lower the gearing and hence the engine will have higher revs for a given speed.
On these the engine sprocket is duplex, so difficult to change, and if I remember the rear sprocket is integral with the brake drum; that can be altered, but the overall ratios would be raised or lowered by the gearbox sprocket,usually 1 tooth down or 1 up. Only visual inspection can tell you whats on the bike.
With close or wide ratios its only certain gears that are changed. I suggest you study the relevant parts lists for gearbox info.
Has it got W stamped on the case has has been suggested?
Its a near 50year old bike and should be ridden in a sympathetic manner as befits its age.
A nice bike that I wouldn't turn down if I was in the market for one.
If you want a bike to do as you have said, its a wrong buy for you.
That's my considered opinion, otherwise its up to you.
As an after thought, A bloke called Ted Simon rode one round the world not so long ago. I don't believe he suffered from too high revs.
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It's a sprocket change at worst, the final drive ratio will probably be the same what ever gearbox it's got. I don't know what you're fretting about.
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If you like it just buy it and don't worry about the gear ratios it's unlikely they are anything other than standard road.
Probably you are getting the sellers bullshite or plain ignorance.
There's a lot of it about.
Incidentally, no-one "potters about" at those speeds on a 50 year old bike. If that's what you want, honkawayama thing is what you need.
I used to get newby optimists in the AMC club wanting to "cruise" at 70mph on a '50s 350.............not for long old lad, not for long.
I don't find that answer a great lot of help, the reason I ask is just so iam not dumped with a bike that's revving its tits of at 50 mph and nothing short of a new gear box will fix it, that's all ???
You've had a number of sensible and well informed responses. Your reply is rude and confrontational. It's clear you don't understand how the gearing on these bikes works as whether it is close ratio or not has no bearing on the revs in top gear.
Perhaps you would be better off asking the question somewhere else (although you won't get better answers).
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the answer was not intended to be "rude or confrontational" and yes you are right, I don't understand how the gearing on these bikes work, hence the post in the first place, what I do understand is many years ago I owned a Bonneville triton with a morgo conversion and a close ratio box, and it worked out high geared in first, up to 70mph, then next to no difference in the next 3 gears and revving to high in top gear at cruising speed, so in this instance sprocket changes were not the answer otherwise it would be near impossible to pull away, but maybe you are right about asking elsewhere.
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It sounds like you're looking for an "overdrive" top gear; to cruise at the legal limit with moderate revs. Well you won't get it; particularly on the T100 with a four speed box.
My T100R thrives on revs and is a bit of a pain at sustained speed. That's how they're designed.
As a road test stated "ideal for blasting between one set of lights and the next".
Buy a Thunderbird and raise the final drive ratio a bit. As Ian said, you won't get the opinion you want on another site either.
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If my past experience of the abortions known as Tritons is anything to go by, the builder never thought anything about gear ratios but just assembled miscellaneous parts regardless.
Did your triton have a Triumph box or a Norton one? Was it a unit engine or pre unit?
Tritons were a 1960s fad which has been turned into a myth. Yet another example of amateurs thinking they could do better than the original manufacturers
Anyone remember the leftovers being turned into
Tribsa
norbsa?
Snide and shark used to sell engine plates to suit almost any mix of parts.
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going off topic a bit
but look at this pile of crap to see what I meant
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRITON-CAFE-RACE-SPECIAL-PROJECT/332730446424?hash=item4d7847b258:g:DREAAOSwt5dbVi9L
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What always amused me about Tritons was that people thought the Triumph engine was a better performer than the Norton. Contemporary road tests (both from the same magazine) actually show the 650SS as faster both on acceleration and top speed than the Bonnie. And the revered Road Rocket with its TT carb? Slower than both.
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That bike in the Ebay ad is the immortal "just needs a few bits to finish". If it's so few...etc etc.
All that work for piss-poor aesthetics again. That arse-high stance never looks good on British bikes.
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I wondering if one engine has ball mains, and the other the plain bush?
Plenty of scope there for breaking, not 10k worth though.
Some years back a guy in the Bournemouth area did a proper job of that and welded two pre unit T100 into a V4, can't remember what frame, but it was a hairy old bike, I think he used it for side car scrambles perhaps.
Difference was, it actually ran well.
As for Featherbed handling,it was good in its day, but I reckon a well set up 1969/70 T120/TR6 handles just as well; in my yob days I could corner them on the footrests no bother[as long as I'd taken the centre stand off that is]. ;D
The very last T100 Daytona were pretty good too. All That Doug Hele input.
Think of all those 1959 Triumph 650 broken up for the engine...... 25k now for a good one.
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Here's (hopefully) my T100R when I first got it nearly 27 years ago. It's JJ57698 and made on the 31st Aug 1973. It must be one of the last made; apart from the T100Ds.
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Flippin' putters. I did rotate it and the image I added to the post was in the correct orientation. Honest.
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Best handling bike I ever had was a 1972 OIF 650 Trumpet....ugly as sin with it's breadbin tank, conical hubs and flat-back headlamp....but it did handle well. The unit 500s are very under-rated in my opinion. Excellent all-rounders.
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S'Alright for you, I couldn't reach the ground on the bleddy things. ::)
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...ugly as sin with it's breadbin tank, conical hubs and flat-back headlamp...
I rather like them I bought this one in the late 70’s mainly because of the larger U.K. tank, flat backed headlamp, conical hubs and the air scoop. The triumph’s the one in the front, if you don’t like tractors or triumphs there’s some washing to look at in the background.
Years ago Bike Magazine printed a photo of a twin engined Triton with the caption “Not one oil leak but two”.
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That's a nice one, but to me the 1968-70 Bonnies and Tigers are the ultimate for looks in units.
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Where I worked in 1972 we were selling them new, they helped to send Triumph/BSA down the pan.
Not enough oil for one thing, 4 pints instead of 8, headlamp supports broke, mudguard stays broke, switch gear crap, owners would remove the tank strap because they couldn't figure out what it did and tanks would split; those silencers were too heavy for their supports; no QD rear wheel, front brake not a patch on the previous one, and yes fugly as sin, and that colour was so yuck, reminiscent of that horrible Leyland mustard colour on Allegros.
Shop was on the S Circular, on the way to Dover so we sold lots to skiving draft dodgers doing the Europe tour, they always wanted a silly sissy bar fitted to hang their rucksacks on, over the back light, not over the seat, some of the unintentional wheelies as they left were funny. No wonder they bought Jap stuff after.
Boss bought so many of the things we were selling new ones 2 years old; BSA Thunderbolts even later.
I like the Fergie, but washing lines are only interesting when the totty next door has done her washing, :o :o
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That's a nice one, but to me the 1968-70 Bonnies and Tigers are the ultimate for looks in units.
I have to agree on that one. But I reckon you could put a unit engine in anything and it would look good, just one mind.
headlamp supports broke,
been there bought that, Wilemans must have made a fortune out of me.
switch gear crap
Double jointed thumbs help.
owners would remove the tank strap because they couldn't figure out what it did and tanks would split;
Thats why mines not the original tank, not because I didn’t know what the strap did but because the bike developed a self adjusting tappet and I had to take it off that often I never got round to putting it back on.
those silencers were too heavy for their supports;
I found the silencers fell apart at about the same time the brackets bust.
front brake not a patch on the previous one
I don’t think there as bad as the internet experts say they are. I had a 1200 bandit with twin discs and god knows how many pots per disc. I find the Bonnie front wheel locks up at roughly the same speed the Bandits back end went in the air doing back yard stoppies.
You didn’t mention into head exhuausts, indicators pointing in any direction but the the right one or clutches that either did or didn’t depending on how strong your left hand was, and if it was very strong you couldn’t get neutral until you switched the engine off. And they occasionally fell of the gearbox shaft.
but washing lines are only interesting when the totty next door has done her washing, :o :o
That’s why my smalls are there, so you can’t see next doors totty washing.
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Yes I forgot about the crap exhausts and the mobile indicators. Never had trouble with a clutch falling off though.
That strap was their because those tanks were so weak over the top of that huge frame tube that the tanks would flex with the weight of fuel and split at the front.
The entire bike was a triumph [no pun] of form over function, designed by on motorcyclists whose actions spawned the sort of plonkers we have to suffer today, the blobber crapper custardising crew who build unridable bikes because they are 'so cool' 'so retro', the ones who want a H-D but buy chinese ready customised H-D 125cc.
Buggered if I know whats happened to motorcycling these days. Nothing wrong with flat tanks and gas lamps.
PS My tomatoes are better than yours.
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If my past experience of the abortions known as Tritons is anything to go by, the builder never thought anything about gear ratios but just assembled miscellaneous parts regardless.
Did your triton have a Triumph box or a Norton one? Was it a unit engine or pre unit?
Tritons were a 1960s fad which has been turned into a myth. Yet another example of amateurs thinking they could do better than the original manufacturers
Anyone remember the leftovers being turned into
Tribsa
norbsa?
Snide and shark used to sell engine plates to suit almost any mix of parts.
my triton had its faults, but abortion, it was certainly not :o it was a featherbed (like them all) unit Bonneville, with morgo 750 conversion and 5 speed quaife close ratio gear box (hence the concern in the first place) properly shortened commando forks with disc brake, alloy rims and commando clocks to name a few of the add ons, the builder had spent serious money on it in 1971, maybe not everybodys cup of tea, but to a 17 year old british bike nut just through his test in 1975 pretty much heaven, and all for £350 pounds, it could take punishment and didn't blow up at a cruising speed of 60-mph but was revving a lot faster than my mates brand new bonnie at the same speed, admittedly I would not touch one with a barge pole now, and the price they are asking now????
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PS My tomatoes are better than yours.
Wait till you see the size of my plums.
In Old Bike Mart a while back the editor responded to a letter asking where the cobbled together Tritons where and how he misses them. I’m waiting for a letter that explains how the riders died while riding them or if they had any sense scrapped them when they failed the MoT.
My other bike is a Rocket Three in a Featherbed. I bought it ready made in the early 80’s and always preferred the Bonnie, it was quicker and handled far better. Being of an impressionable age in the late 70’s and 80’s Tritons were the bike to have if you didn’t like Jap stuff and couldn’t afford Italian, you were a super hero if you had a Trident or Rocket Three. I had a few tritons in the days when I didn’t know any better, they were all chuffin ‘oribble. I remember one had a central oil tank held in with a big rubber band, it fell off while entering the works bike sheds, the oil tank locked the back wheel up and I skidded sideways into a ruddy great row of Honda 90’s knocking them all over like dominoes. My mate who was behind me on his 550 Suzuki reckoned I’d picked them all up and was pretending nothing had happened before he got his side stand down.
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My favorite triton event was an el cheapo alloy front guard that broke away from the mounting screws and went round with the front wheel.....not right round....just far enough for a skid on the slippery alloy at 80mph.......fast forward,and I see tossers on ebay selling the same el cheapo guards...for 100 quid each...same rubbish ...
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As a yoof in the 60s I had a Douglas with an ugly front mudguard. As image was everything at 17 (see photo posing) I got an alloy front guard. Being an apprentice plumber I made the stays out of 1/2" copper tube and bolted the ends to the hub.
On the first ride one of the stays broke, the guard wrapped around the wheel and off we came. No real harm done, but very quickly retrieved the bits and off before anyone saw me.
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AS I said they were a 1960s fad, that doesn't mean all off them were badly assembled, in those days we were still apprentices with practical skills.
I have seen some nice ones now and again but mostly they are bodges put together by blokes with limited budgets from a pride and clarke catalogue, which is why, back then, for the most part, they all ended up looking more or less the same,which defeated the object of having something different.
What sticks in my mind was the amount of them that had TRITON in big Gothic letters on the fibre glass tank. what was that about.?
My own folies de jeunesse are too embarrassing to recount while sober.
I'm fond of a good plum Grunt, funnily enough all the tomatoes sold in my local Morrison are grown in Yorkshire, you can tell by the grit in them.
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you can tell by the grit in them.
That’s not grit, it’s a Yorkshiremans sweat.
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Never seen a yorkshire man sweat, none of them move fast enough ;)
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After the Cried and Snarke engine plates craze (Motorcycle Mechanics were forever giving away paper templates too, as I recall) came the chopper craze. Things like extended tele's by screwing on a 12" fork slug...who'd want to ride a bike with the forks extended by 3/4" of fine-threaded alloy? Then rear suspension struts to male the bike a rigid (sorry...hard tail) Maltese cross tail lights, daft ape-hangers and two silly little car spots for headlamps. What might have been seen as cool in Oakland or LA didn't translate to the mean streets of Heckmondwyke or somesuch, and especially not when the long-suffering bike was some poor old M20 etc.
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Bringing back memories Rex. I'd forgotten those.
I do remember how stupid those old BSA choppers used to look with some grubby bloke thinking he was in San Francisco in the sun, instead of soaking wet in Lewisham. The yanks had masses of cash to throw at theirs, our seemed to be done on benefits cheques.
I think it all started when the 59 club showed the film "The Wild Ones" a week later the bike park was full of ape hangers.
Some blokes were in such a hurry they had just swiveled their clip-ons forwards.
folie de jeunesse indeed, that film is on you tube in full, have a look I can't believe how downright camp it is. Marlon Brando hard? all he needed was a handbag.
"what are you rebelling about?" "waddya got?"
classic.
TGR90B, you old smoothie you, slip-ons too :o winkle pickers and brothel creepers in my cupboard then.
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Sorry about the shoes, I didn't reach puberty until I was 27.
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Never seen a yorkshire man sweat, none of them move fast enough
It’s nowt to do with movement, most sweating is wallet related.
No body’s mentioned highway pegs, I had a lump of steel pipe clamped to the frame with U bolts but still couldn’t get a girlfriend.
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...And Dexion. Every back street hero's bike needed some Dexion on it somewhere.
As for Easy Riders when I tried to rewatch it some years back I couldn't believe how abysmal it was. They must be doing all of 20mph in the action shots, the dialogue is laughable and yet people still say that it's some sort of classic film.
Rather like all those Viet-Nam war films of that era where the troops had things like "Love" or "F*ck" written on the helmet bands, or a couple of rounds tucked in 'em.
Cliche'd nonsense, the lot of it.
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Dexion!!!
jeez you are making me dredge the dark recesses of my memory now Rex.
I think it was late 1950s or the 60s that one of the weekly bike mags ran a "specials" competition there was one bloke who built a frame entirely out of Dexion and fitted a VW flat four engine into it. Unbelievably they ran a feature on it. I think I might have it somewhere,I'll post it if I can find it.
What else?
59 club special sidecars, a coffin, an armchair, and a bathtub I recall fitted to chassis.
Marlon Brando for those that don't yet know, camper than a row of pink tents. https://youtu.be/yCENBce_dls
https://youtu.be/_TtaSwqQAyI
https://youtu.be/_4NkkAQllfo
https://youtu.be/wwB_Mrnwr_8
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Amazing how corny that is. Give me the Black Widows any day.
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Not forgetting the lace paintwork craze........steal grannys lace curtains,and spray the tank with silverfrost thru the lace.....even seen cars done .
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Apehangers and silver duct tape on the helmet was my limit.
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Dexion, that wasn’t much good for making shelving with someone had to find a better use for it.
Chrome shower hose over fuel pipes has to be quite high up on the list of things that were cool for a week or so.
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Engraving all over the primary cover...little see-through doo-dads in the spark plug wires which meant you could see the sparks at night...chain line 1/2" out to clear the edge of the over-fat tyre...sh*tty skull graphics....twisted-bar over extended girder forks done in quick-peel chrome...dinky little moped front brake...forward controls so poorly made there was an 1" of slop before any movement....petrol tank mounted so ridiculously it looked by a boil on a baboon's bum. A never ending list.
Nearly forgot the biggest crime...choc blocks everywhere. :'(
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dahn sarf there was that chrome tube over control cables as well.
shagged out plunger BSAs turned into H-D look-a-likes never worked did it?
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Hi All,
The chrome tubing was robbed from all the payphones :o
John
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In Sarff Lunndun all the payphones smelt of piss.
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After seeing the wild one clips I googled “Uncle Bunts Old Don Bloxidge”. It was all too much for me and I’ve had to have along lie down.
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I really thought you made that up Grunt................... ;)
but you didn't :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[