classic motorcycle forum

Motorcycle Discussions => Japanese Bikes => Topic started by: terecha on August 18, 2018, 05:37:42 PM

Title: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 18, 2018, 05:37:42 PM
Honda Dream 3E – year 1953
The oldest version of 3E model – very rare, has got the same wheel hubs like 2E model. Later 3E had oval wheel hubs. Engine and frame matching numbers. I am the 2nd owner since 1953.
Purchased in Japan a couple years ago. Since new, bike was stored in a dry room. Due it, the rust has never shown up. Until 2018 bike was in original condition. Still has got genuine drive chain and sprockets.
In 2018 bike was completely restored. New paint, all needed parts rechromed, engine and carb rebuilt, new wiring loom, new rear lens, headlight refreshed, new rubbers and tyres. Every single part looks like in 1953. Painted using enamel similar to the Honda’s one.
Runs at the first kick. Top compression. There is no oil smoke from the muffler. Engine doesn’t stall – runs very stable. Bike clutches, stops and shifts gears perfectly. Charging is great. Every single electrical part works fine.
Engine is 10km after rebuild, so it should be broken in by next owner.
Very genuine example of Honda Dream 3E.
Bike will be sold in Bonhams Stafford Autumn Show 19-20 October 2019.
You can also bid online. If you want do it, you must register asap and click 'bid'. It can be shipped worldwide.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25384/lot/391/?category=list&length=394&page=1


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Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: Rex on August 18, 2018, 07:51:38 PM
Very Teutonic styling but for that price I'd expect tidy wiring and oil pipes...
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: murdo on August 18, 2018, 11:01:37 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: iansoady on August 19, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
Interesting bike but ludicrous price even if it had been original.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: TGR90B on August 19, 2018, 10:31:53 AM
Possibly a dealer? This is hardly the place for adverts like that IMO.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 19, 2018, 10:37:48 AM
I agree with Rex, not a good enough standard of  restoration for the price which would buy a good BSA Gold Star or class vintage bike and have cash left over.

Personally I think its an ugly bike of little other than academic interest.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: cardan on August 19, 2018, 11:43:47 AM

I wonder if it's worth LESS after its restoration? A bike is only original once.

Leon
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: TGR90B on August 19, 2018, 12:32:27 PM
That's a fair point Leon. A long term friend of mine has a BSA 250 Empire Star that his father bought new before the war. He's been on for years about restoring it; which he will never get round to. I've told him quite firmly just to clean it up and try to get it running. It's been untouched since the sixties.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 19, 2018, 02:21:15 PM
 Sure, maybe it is not very beautiful bike. But Honda exists till today BSA collapsed long time ago. I marked not very high price. Silly restored 3E models are sold for USD 40 000 - 45 000 from time to time. At this condition and mileage it is low price.
I also restored Porsche 911 from 1965 - it can achieve USD 400 000 point. It is very poor car compared to beautifull Jaguar E type from this era (technically advanced with bigger engines) and Jaguar is 3x times cheaper than Porsche today.

I am collector. I don't have many bikes, but I want to move from village to the city soon. Due it I have to sell my bikes.

Picture of my bike from 2016.

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Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 19, 2018, 02:28:52 PM
I suspect that  old Japanese bikes from 1953 have even less of an interest base here in UK as do tatty old french 2 strokes from 1953.

In 1953 any one who even thought of buying a Japanese bike would have been lynched, as the memory of Japanese POW atrocities was very fresh.

Personally I wold not give it garage room even if it was given free, and I agree that it would probably been worth more if you had left it as it was.

and £24 THOUSAND!! is a joke price for it here. No chance.

old honda or this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norton-1947-Garden-Gate-Manx-Racing-Machine/302849741922?hash=item4683405462:g:wcYAAOSwfk9bWvvH

or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1956-BSA-GOLDSTAR-CLUBMANS-DBD-34-Black-Silver/332727262459?hash=item4d78171cfb:g:kE0AAOSwSzRZOTg8




Where do you live?
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 19, 2018, 02:37:32 PM
I am from Poland.

And sure. After WW2 things were different. Also Japan was the first country where recycling was common, due it not many old bikes are saved till today.

Note that you can't buy Honda Dream D from 1949 cheaper than USD 60 000 in very poor condition! I hunted for it 15 years and no chance.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 19, 2018, 02:45:46 PM
It is not a joke
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23131/lot/84/

Younger and common model 4E sold for USD 26 500. Not correct replica of seats installed. Rust in many points.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 19, 2018, 02:47:56 PM
I suspect that  old Japanese bikes from 1953 have even less of an interest base here in UK as do tatty old french 2 strokes from 1953.

In 1953 any one who even thought of buying a Japanese bike would have been lynched, as the memory of Japanese POW atrocities was very fresh.

Personally I wold not give it garage room even if it was given free, and I agree that it would probably been worth more if you had left it as it was.

and £24 THOUSAND!! is a joke price for it here. No chance.

old honda or this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norton-1947-Garden-Gate-Manx-Racing-Machine/302849741922?hash=item4683405462:g:wcYAAOSwfk9bWvvH

or
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1956-BSA-GOLDSTAR-CLUBMANS-DBD-34-Black-Silver/332727262459?hash=item4d78171cfb:g:kE0AAOSwSzRZOTg8




Where do you live?

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1953-vincent-series_c_black_shadow
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 19, 2018, 02:51:18 PM
Good luck with selling it.

Those old jap bikes disappeared because they were not built very well, nothing to do with recycling.

No one in UK wants old Japanese bikes, except maybe a one or two trendy dealers so maybe you should try to sell it in USA where they have more money than sense and were buying Japanese bikes long before us because they occupied japan for so long and could buy them for almost nothing.

In UK in the 1950s we only bought British made bikes.

There is no comparison in those links you give, they were sold in the USA, and you cannot, not ever, compare a Vincent with that Honda[even though I don't like Vincents]. Nor do one off auction prices in the USA or here even give a true market place value.

I think you are falling into the common trap of a lot of people outside the UK of seeing the stupid prices asked for a lot of bikes here by some dealers or ignorant  amateur dealers and believing they are a true reflection of real prices.

Try this site, which goes world wide and is free to sell on.  https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/.   you might have more luck there.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 19, 2018, 02:54:17 PM
Because in 1950's Jap bikes were primitive compared to British products ;)
Thank you for the advices Mini.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 19, 2018, 03:06:37 PM
Quote
Because in 1950's Jap bikes were primitive compared to British products ;)

tongue in cheek?  ;)  they were certainly primitive in their technology and innovation, so many of their bikes were outright copies or amalgamations of different British or European machines.

Certainly back in those very hard times here, many of our machines had definite pre 1940 technology obvious, but they worked well and reliably which is why so many survive all over the world and are so sought after.

Most of our money here went to paying back the USA for the privilege of buying their wartime equipment. We only just paid the last installment.
Your government has the right idea by sending their bill to Germany ;) :o
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 19, 2018, 03:15:48 PM
Quote
Because in 1950's Jap bikes were primitive compared to British products ;)

tongue in cheek?  ;)  they were certainly primitive in their technology and innovation, so many of their bikes were outright copies or amalgamations of different British or European machines.

Certainly back in those very hard times here, many of our machines had definite pre 1940 technology obvious, but they worked well and reliably which is why so many survive all over the world and are so sought after.

Most of our money here went to paying back the USA for the privilege of buying their wartime equipment. We only just paid the last installment.
Your government has the right idea by sending their bill to Germany ;) :o

As I am Polish I can say about my country. Pre war we had around 30 motorcycle manufacturers. All of bikes were more advanced in 1920's than first Hondas from 1950's. The top bike Sokół 1000 was comparable to the top BMW and Zundapp bikes at the September 1939 battlefield. But Wehrmacht had much more vehicles.  So Poland lost campaign. And after the war nobody sent the bill to the Germany or Soviet Union, so I envy that you Britian has got honest and brave politicians.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 19, 2018, 03:42:51 PM

Quote
Britain has got honest and brave politicians.

That is the funniest thing I have heard all week, we are presently governed by the biggest bunch of liars, thieves, crooks, and traitors in a our history. On one side is a  lying two faced anti british hag who is doing her best to cancel a democratic vote, and on the other side a  two faced anti british  marxist communist liar.

Yes I have seen an article about the Sokol sidecar outfit, but its a surprise to know you had so many makers of bikes, that is probably equal to here for the time.

However, if you can dig out from your remote farms some of those old BMW R75 outfits and Kettenkrads they used to use as tractors, according to a Polish friend of mine,they'll fetch good prices here. Crazy prices paid for left over wartime vehicles.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: Rex on August 19, 2018, 03:43:26 PM
For people of my dad's generation anything made by the Japanese meant cheap copies or knock-offs, and that's before the events pre and during WW2 are considered.
I'm guessing that this little bike isn't "primitive" just that the styling wasn't ever to British tastes (as the similarly styled German stuff was, before their bike industry went belly-up too).

You'd have to be a serious collector to pay those prices, and even though some still like to talk up the prices of so-called Jap classics, the reality is somewhat different.

The Japs themselves seem to prefer a good Bonnie or Goldie, and who could blame them? ;)
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 19, 2018, 05:01:28 PM

Quote
Britain has got honest and brave politicians.

That is the funniest thing I have heard all week, we are presently governed by the biggest bunch of liars, thieves, crooks, and traitors in a our history. On one side is a  lying two faced anti british hag who is doing her best to cancel a democratic vote, and on the other side a  two faced anti british  marxist communist liar.

Yes I have seen an article about the Sokol sidecar outfit, but its a surprise to know you had so many makers of bikes, that is probably equal to here for the time.

However, if you can dig out from your remote farms some of those old BMW R75 outfits and Kettenkrads they used to use as tractors, according to a Polish friend of mine,they'll fetch good prices here. Crazy prices paid for left over wartime vehicles.

There are 3 Nazi tanks sunk in the swamp about 4 miles from my house ;)

And how about Brexit? Isn't it a great turn?
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 19, 2018, 05:20:45 PM
You tube is full of tank recovery vids, there is a guy on TV here pays serious money for them and who restores them.

I am all for Brexit it cannot come quick enough.
I voted to join back in the 1970s, but that was for a European friendship and trading zone which I was all for.

We who voted out are not anti europe lot as the media makes out, we are just not happy about being governed by ex stasti merkel  and her mafia, nor  having millions of people who are not european thrusted on us with the resulting problems.

Generally this island race is quite happy to get along with all sorts. Just don't impose on us.

I have picked my words very carefully there in case of moderation ;) ;)!
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 19, 2018, 05:32:25 PM
We also have huge problem with German companies, which destroy our businesses. Methinks EU has got much more disadvantages than advantages. Personally I would pull out my country from EU zone, but I can't :/
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 19, 2018, 05:39:33 PM
Give it time, its in its death throes.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: Rex on August 19, 2018, 09:30:32 PM
I hope you're right!
Poland is now seen as "problematic" by most of the other 27 countries as it's not following the rules and is being "difficult" over it's allocation of 3 million sub-Saharan Africans.
You ought to take them Terecha to replace the 3 million Poles who now live here...... ;)
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 20, 2018, 09:34:30 AM
Methinks cultures shouldn't be mixed. It leads to conflicts and wars only.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: iansoady on August 20, 2018, 10:00:14 AM
Come on chaps, can we talk about bikes rather than descending into rants?
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 20, 2018, 10:29:09 AM
yes terecha
best to PM if you want to talk politics.

otherwise we'll all end up on  the naughty step, ;) 
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 20, 2018, 10:44:56 AM
Haha let's talk about bikes. :D
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: TGR90B on August 20, 2018, 01:16:29 PM
I appreciate what Ian has said, but it has turned this thread into a very entertaining topic IMO.
I will only add that when I had a stroke the Polish doctor at the hospital was excellent in his treatment and I made a 99% recovery. Eternally grateful.
Dave.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on August 20, 2018, 03:01:03 PM
I had a Polish nurse putting the catheter in when I had my knee op;didn't get a stroke :o, but at least she waited till I was unconscious, just as well, I was in no position to be proud. :-[ :-[

Polish nurse
Estonian surgeon
Bulgarian surgeon
Czech physio
and others, No complaints here.

Only the Irish senior staff nurse was scary. Came in  said, " I buried two husbands and brought up four sons, so I'll take no crap from you lot in here"
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on August 31, 2018, 01:28:29 PM
Bike is still for sale
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: iansoady on August 31, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Now there's a surprise.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on September 03, 2018, 11:48:59 AM
The value you put on it, 24 thousand pounds, is far in excess of its value here,so there is no chance of a sale.

Even at 2 thousand four hundred it would still be regarded as expensive.

No one in UK is interested in jap bikes of that era, hard but true.

Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: Rex on September 03, 2018, 12:03:20 PM
The British old bike enthusiasts are notoriously as tight as a duck's drum.
I was at Netley Marsh last Friday, and heard that immortal exchange-

"How much is this mate?"
" I dunno...give me a quid"
"Nah, far too much..make it 50p and I'll take it".

So there's this way of thinking amongst all the normal old riders, and those who spring £50K for a Vin or whatever, and your bike falls smack in the middle.Too dear for some, no marketable quality for others. Have you tried the Jap home market?
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on September 03, 2018, 05:25:55 PM
Quote
The British old bike enthusiasts are notoriously as tight as a duck's drum.

and tighter, some makes have owners even tighter than that, V******* and V *******    owners I always found worst.

back in the days when I sold a lot at jumbles, it was always the V******* parts that got nicked.

By gawd I have some tales of tight arses from my trade  days  you'd find hard to credit.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: murdo on September 03, 2018, 10:25:03 PM
I know a bloke who is so tight that I think his has been welded shut.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on September 27, 2019, 01:13:11 PM
Honda Dream 3E was listed in Bonhams.

You can bid online. If you want do it, you must register asap and click 'bid'. It can be shipped worldwide.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25384/lot/391/?category=list&length=394&page=1
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: terecha on September 30, 2019, 10:30:41 PM
Regarding questions about bidding online…
If you want do it, you must register asap in Bonhams system (shortly before auction it would be impossible):
https://www.bonhams.com/register/?full_reg=1&reg_rtn_path=/auctions/25384/lot/391/%23keep_bid_open%3D1%26id%3D5317058
and click 'bid' next to the motorcycle’s main picture.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: TGR90B on September 30, 2019, 11:01:25 PM
Do you honestly think there's the remotest possibility that anyone on this site will be interested in these bikes? I know the site could do with more posts, but it's not an advertising forum; particularly for this perceived exotica.
Title: Re: Honda Dream 3E from 1953 - top condition, very genuine bike for sale
Post by: mini-me on October 21, 2019, 11:49:38 AM
sold for £13,800 inc buyers premium, hammer price was 12k, so take home will be a lot less than 12k.

and the other one allegedly valued at over 100k?   20k hammer price.

oh well.

On the other hand there were some nice Sunbeams .