classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: oliverb on August 24, 2018, 11:43:35 AM
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First of all Hello, my name is Oliver and thank you for accepting me to this forum, I'm looking for some info regarding this Royal Enfield I would like to purchase and restore, however I'm not sure of the exact model, I'm having trouble matching that engine shape to other RE online, can anyone help me identify this? Any help much appreciated.
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Flying Flea?
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That reg. was issued in Aberdeen between Aug. '39 and Oct. '46.
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Thanks iansoady & TGR90B,
I'm thinking it could be a Flying Flea (first image) but I see a small difference in the chassis shape between both, I'm also thinking it looks like the 1937 225cc (two stroke) (second image), however seller says that it's a 4 stroke engine, just wondering if there has been a modification of some kind.
A bit difficult with the images they have provided, I have requested more images to the seller.
Thanks again.
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Flying Flea was the WD two stroke, not a sidevalve. I am not even sure that bike is even a Royal Enfield Google 1936 Royal Enfield 250 to see very obvious differences, because 1936 is about its date.
If it is RE it would have been a very mediocre bike indeed, be very careful what you pay for this basket case, it's not worth the expense.
The brown thing in the top photo is a fake.
this is the real thing
(https://i.imgur.com/WRJj5p5.jpg?1)
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Hi mini-me,
Thanks for pointing out the fake, I'm a bit new in the classic bikes world, I was wondering myself if it was a RE at all, I'm being told this by the person selling it, if not a RE what the heck is it?
I'm not paying much to be honest but I'm not looking for a headache bike restoration project that's going to be very hard to find bits for, that's why I'm after the exact model or Make and Model.
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As someone who has wasted enough cash on duds over the last 55 years, my sincere advice to you is don't buy this bike.
A newcomer I would definitely advise buying a complete bike, at least that way you might get to ride it one day, whatever this one is it'll be a long term money pit.
On a headache scale, that's a really bad migraine. Could advise better if you told your budget.
That looks like a pile of copper wire scrap behind it? is it being sold from a scrap yard?
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I'm a bit new in the classic bikes world,
Then this probably isn't the one for you. Always try and buy something that's complete and standing on it's wheels if possible, as all the spacers, brackets and assorted doodads will (hopefully) be there.
Someone will buy this pile o' shite but it's likely to be someone who has another bigger pile o' shite at home to use as a parts source. There's not a great deal of sense in putting a lot of time and/or money into something which never will amount to much.
If you want a smaller old bike to cut your teeth on there's usually a few Bantams on Ebay, and parts and knowledge for those are readily available.
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I cant see that the motor belongs.....nevertheless,I see a fair bit of value there .....especially if the girders and front wheel/guard are half way sound.....depends entirely on the asking........I once bought a cammy sq 4 and sidecar from a scrapyard for 5 quid,but that was a while ago.
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might be a 1932 C model.....350cc..SV.........the other side of the motor would be handy.
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Enfields of that era have oil in sump, like all Enfields, also twin down tube frames.
The only SV engine of that era with that straight out exh port I can think of was Matchless, but that's not a Matchless engine.
Somehow OK Supreme came into my head, they also used Albion boxes, and proprietry engines, if it's an OK it would be worth saving for its rarity value
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Hi to all,
Thank you mini-me, Rex & john.k for the advice, you are right about not investing in a dead end project, I'm not really afraid of the restoration process, in fact it's something me and my old man are good at, when I said I'm new to the classic bikes I meant the 1930s ones, as I know that rarity means no pieces available and this would be my headache, I'm informed that there are a couple pieces missing on the engine of this bike, this is the reason I'm looking for the exact make and model to do some research and see how rare this bike is, I would love to sand blast it and do the work to bring it up to good state but if it's a rare bike with no pieces available it will be a no no for me, hence why I'm asking around, I have other people of facebook saying that it's not a RE but they are not able to say what it is either... I think I will have to give a pass on this after all.
Here are some pictures of a Guzzi Airone 250 that me and Dad just finished (It was a garage find in Milan and it was complete except for some rubbers that I ordered in Italy):
Thank you all for your feedback, it's much appreciated :)
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Very nice.
A view of the other side of that motor would be helpful.
The cycle parts do look a bit Enfield, especially the forks.
Which means there were once lots of them about.
A lot of the smaller parts for pre/war Enfields appear on fleabay now and them,
although often without the sellers knowing quite what they are....
Everything is shown in the parts books, so with that in hand it is possible to leap in ahead of the hordes.
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The 1932 Mod C didnt have an oil sump....it was total loss .....But as mentioned a view of the timing side of the motor would be helpfull.
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This one had a sump
(http://www.vinandvet.eu/uploads/images/Gallery/stock0129/P1100006.jpg)
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Thank you guys for your feedback, have spent several hours already on Google images searching for 20s 30s 40s engines and bikes I have seen many similarities but nothing exact yet, no match, but I haven't given up just yet.
The engine below is from a Norton 1936 International M40 350 cc ohc, it's not an exact match but close.
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Close to what? ???
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Ok, I rectify, closest looking thing, chassis fixture and engine shape, I'm not in any way saying that my original post is a Norton, it's only most resembling shape I could find.
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Oh dear,
the only thing those engines have in common is they are made of iron and aluminium.
About as far apart as you could get.
You'll be hard put to idenitfy from google images.
Put some more of your own on. of the other side and the bits in the box.
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Sometimes you just have to laugh.....
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Oh dear, please forgive, I did say I was new and that the only "shape" of engine / crank I found was that, referring and meaning I was in a dead end, sorry for the offence.
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No offence taken. However, you have been asked for photos of the other side of the engine which would be far more use than the side you've shown.
It was the comparison with a Norton Inter that caused my amusement.
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Photos have requested, I'm waiting, the minute I have them I shall post here, let's see if we can solve this misery bike or bunch of scrap pieces... :)
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Where on earth did you see it advertised with rats**t photos like that?
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bloody hell, I've not heard anyone say rats**t for decades :o
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i think its a 1931 model C 350sv........total loss,single downtube.....the 1932 appears to have a twin downtube frame.....and the 1930 has brampton forks.....so 1931......
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This thread is going no where. As in all these cases can we just have the engine and frame numbers? That would resolve the matter very quickly.
The gearbox number would also be useful.
Cheers,
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Given the issue date of the rego, I assume we're at the other end of the 1930s, so something like a 1939 Model D (250). As 33d6 says, engine and frame numbers would enable a proper id.
Leon
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Or a military version thereof.
Although that may not tie in with the numberplate detail.
Gearchange detail (hand or foot ?) may assist here...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5059/5501220226_833c342b44_b.jpg)
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I hadn't realised there was a WD version of the the RE 250, but there's a nice discussion here from 11 years ago... http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=681.0
Leon
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It is a requirement of the military contract that there be a parts book provided, so they must be about ?
Certainly the WD/C and WD/CO ones are plentiful enough.
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For any info re WD machines the only place to go is the WD M20 forum, those guys are fanatics for detail and history.
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It is a requirement of the military contract that there be a parts book provided, so they must be about ?
Certainly the WD/C and WD/CO ones are plentiful enough.
The workshop manual I have for the WD/CO is A4 size and the best workshop manual I've ever seen. Plentiful line drawings, exploded assemblies, specs, special tools etc. Shame Haynes didn't learn a few lessons from them.
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For any info re WD machines the only place to go is the WD M20 forum, those guys are fanatics for detail and history.
Jan is the expert on military Enfields, he was posting here a while back as REWDCO (?)
Until he started gathering info from actual owners, the knowledge was pretty thin....
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The workshop manual I have for the WD/CO is A4 size and the best workshop manual I've ever seen. Plentiful line drawings, exploded assemblies, specs, special tools etc. Shame Haynes didn't learn a few lessons from them.
Indeed.
Obviously written by someone who had been through all the steps on an actual bike, and had written it down as it went along.
Not like being taught to ride, without ever having sat on a bike... !
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the gearbox looks like a small burman
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Or the prewar Albion, which is what Enfields used.....
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In the 1939 sales doc on Sheldons,it says you could have a 3 speed or a 4 speed for 1 pound extra.Tank looks a lot longer too in the sales pics.....The wd/co s were gutless,the wd/c s were hopeless ,so I can just imagine what a 250 sv was like....I remember arne schloss had a shed full of wd/c motors new that he used in mowers that he made.....Unfortunately arne did a naughty thing and went to the bighouse......
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Must have a look at that, Enfields had 4 sp foot change for quite a while prewar.
Big range of models though, maybe my interests have been concentrated.
Yes, it was reputed that the military asked Enfields for more power from the (sidevalve) WD/C, since even for convoy work it wasn't too speedy.
The WD/CO (ohv) was the result, but only being a 350 it and the M20 and 16h were about the same.
btw, I've mown the grass/weeds with a mower with an Enfield G (ohv 350), and it only needed to be idled,
talk about chomping through the grass. Where my interest for Enfields came from ?
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It's definitely late '30s onwards, the adjuster handwheel on the forks came in (I think) about 1938.
There should be a separate oil tank that fits in between the engine and gearbox, between the engine plates.
Tank doesn't look right, and wouldn't have been chrome on a utility lightweight.
It may be "grey porridge", but it's a survivor. It deserves another day.
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There is a lot missing ,to be sure......and the finished article wont be of high value..........IMHO,the forks and frame will end up as a custom......or parted out on ebay.
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Not being a big fan of 350s (invariably a smaller engine in 500 running gear) but I was pleasantly surprised when giving the WD/CO a run. Pulls just as well as the accompanying B31's etc and has a nice solid feel too.
I can well imagine the SV to be "gutless" but not appropriate for this particular model. The post-war Model G had the same running gear though with heavier tele forks etc.
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The engine is model D
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Yes that was decided quite a way back.
Then the discussion moved on to that the 350cc Model WD/C was officially deemed gutless,
so how would a Model D (250cc) go ....
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Oliver b has left the building,so how about we reminisce on lawnmowers with motorbike engines.....My old man had several WM20 engines bought new from the army auctions that he used in various agricultural things.....Anyone ever seen a Hargan Saw...an Aussie bush icon...They came with WD 16H Nortons and Triumph motors ,as well as the M20........they had a carby that allowed the motor to run upside down ,if necessary.
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Seen a few Hargan saws mostly BSA powered, bloody dangerous things they were. My dad was using one in the forest near Dorrigo, NSW in the late 1940's when the blade hit something in the log and a piece of the blade flew off and put a hole in his brand new hat only just missing his scalp. He wouldn't use one again and went to work in the timber mill instead of the forest.
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Ooh lovely, thread divergence.....
I spent a year in the 1970s working on horticultural machines. My favourites were the ones with 500cc sv Dennis engines - Howard Gem, Allen Scythe etc. Great machines.
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Looking at pictures of that hideous device why did no one think to put a guard over that blade?
Ian, my vice is Wheelhorse tractors, want a BSA powered Ransomes mower?