classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: antoni on January 23, 2019, 11:37:33 AM
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...and would I be able to get spares and maintain it?
I've ridden a G3LS for 10,000 miles over 10 years.
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For a while......
Although the fake Sunbeams are very popular with those with a hipster leaning they did have a number of design flaws including the worm drive back axle. If I was looking for a 500 twin I'd go for an A7 unless you really want shaft drive in which case a BMW might suit you. But your Matchless would probably be nearly as fast......
Spares are available for the S7 / S8 from Stewart Engineering.
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As I understand it the old "rear drive problems" ended when a) the bikes stopped being merely old nails and started to be maintained properly, and b) when better oils became available.
A charming old bike which always attracts people ready to chat. My mate's bike does more than 57mph but like so many 65 year olds, it's cruelty to expect longevity if you anticipate doing those speeds continuously.
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I love these posts about whether this or that 50 yr old bike will cruise at 80mph all day or some such nonsense.
Have these people never heard of Japanese bikes, or even Triumph?
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Mr. Me,
Do you love these posts or do you not like them?
57 mph is a very important speed to be able to maintain if you find yourself needing to use motorways or A-roads. Informed opinions on a marque and model are what this forum is about.
Moving onto the Sunbeams' worm drive, would modern lubricants designed for 'modern' hypoid drive differentials be appropriate for an old drive using old metal alloys?
For example it is necessary to use safe lubricants in my 1960 Regal MkV's transmission. There are unsafe ones.
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Judge for yourself on a bike with a tested top speed of 83mph in 1950. 80mph in third BTW.
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#1 don't ride on motorways,they are no place for old bikes, from the point of view of safety and other users if nothing else.
#2 On A roads, but never dual carrigeways, where I often ride bikes older that an S8, I do not attempt to keep up with or in front of other traffic.
Informed opinions on a marque and model are what this forum is about.
Thats what you got, I've been 55 years on british bikes,seen the roads change beyond all comprehension, as well as deteriorating standards of driver behaviour.
I was taught by BSM to drive a car in the Tottenham Court Road in the mid 60s, try that now.
The smallest cars on the road today are faster and better brakes, acceleration etc than your S8, just enjoy the ride and let the fools rush past.
57mph,such a definative figure, not 55? or 58? your speedo won't be that accurate.
Although the fake Sunbeams are very popular with those with a hipster leaning
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D also required a beard, a man bun,silly haircut, face ironmongery, and an inability to order a plain cup of coffee,.
oh my god I need a skinny latte mocha frapp now........ BARISTA!!!!
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Thanks for the replies. I tried to be concise in my original post but it seems more detail is needed. I love riding at 30-40 mph on backroads. That's what 90% of my riding is.
There are events which I would like to be able to ride to instead of driving to. So that's - say - 3 round trips of 120 miles per year tops.
My Matchless is only borderline happy holding 57 mph and thereby avoiding the need for speed-limited 56mph lorries overtaking me leaving 12 inches of clearance between me and them.
My rebuilt Smiths Chronometric is the most accurate speedo I've ever used. That's why the ploice BMs had them installed in the 80s
Can a bike which achieved 83mph (presumably briefly) in 1950 steadily hold me ahead of the angry lorries, without overheating its rear cylinder, or overstressing its worm drive or any other of its parts?
I don't know the answer to those questions but I notice that the Sunbeams might be had for less eyewatering sums than the usual suspects.
What is a fake Sunbeam? I'm baffled!
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I'd suggest when one of theose HGvs overtake, hang back, you can't be in such a hurry?
Having been a mechanic for the Met and City police I think I can speak with some knowledge of their speedo practice; they were regularly checked and calibrated by a specialist police dept,run by a copper.
I was also there when the City Police took delivery of the first BMW bikes by any Police force[they were horrible bikes] and I| have the certificates from BMW to qualify me to decide what rubbish they were. I once owned an ex police RT which was the most unreliable bike I have ever owned apart from an XZ Yamaha, so I'm not impressed by BMW worship.
I forget at what intervals but often a defence lawyer would be sure to ask when calibration was last carried out.
Yes chronos are accurate, but not as accurate as you want/believe them to be, do the numbers on the dial tally with orginal spec?
A fake Sunbeam is one made by BSA, not by Marstons in Wolverhampton, or even AMC pre war.
As you are familiar with AMC singles why not look for a 500? that will fill your want.
Police motorcycles are nothing special apart from a few police equipment mods, despite the bollox/wishful thinking I often read from the fanciful.
The most reliable modern bike I owned was the often mocked CX500 Honda, nearly 100.k on the clock when I sold it, going up in value, far better than an S8.
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Thank you for your contribution to this thread Mr. Me.
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No trouble,I said all I have to say, except that you are looking for a unicorn.
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Hypoid and extreme pressure (EP) additives DESTROY bronze gears in worm drives................you need some kind of high spec industrial worm gear lube............The old worm drive iubes contained around 20-30% castor oil.........Pre 1950 many big trucks had bronze worm drives,and worm oils were freely available..........one I remember is Dentax W which we used in the worm diffs of the Coles 30 ton cranes.
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http://www.stewartengineering.co.uk/viewPart.asp?id=1056
From the Sunbeam experts.
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To be passing any speed limited trucks in Aus,you ll be needing a Vincent Rapide.....speed limited to 104k,they cruise at 120k,and pass cars a dozen at a time.........there are plenty of the S8 Sunbeams for sale here ,for not much money,because they cant hack it on the hi way.
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I have ridden thousands of miles with a best friend on a Sunbeam S7. The answer to your question is yes. His self imposed top speed is just under 60mph, this is to keep oil consumption at a reasonable level and just general mechanical sympathy for an old lady! The S8 is lighter so should manage 57 easily. My pal has had 'Beams for over 40 years and was well connected to the original Stewarts of Putney. The rear drive "problem" is largely a myth created by poor/lack of maintenance and the wrong oil. Modern hypoids are the answer. Motorway work is not the ideal place for a 50s bike but my experience is that truck drivers are usually very sympathetic to bikes, a truck driving friend tells me many drivers ride themselves as an antidote to being stuck behind the wheel all day!
REgards, Mark
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If that was the case then most/all old bikes would be going for "not much money" then, but doesn't every old bike rider tailor their speeds to suit the bike and conditions?
If you really wanted to mix it with those trucks you'd just buy a new Honda.
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Mark perhaps you live outside the UK?; the number of foreign HGVs on our roads is unbelievable, especially on motorways and A class roads, you have only to see the reports of fatalties caused by pizza eating video watching east europeans in HGVs to see that.
While the Sunbeam S8/7 are quite a nice bikes the OP is looking to die; He wants one mile an hour advantage over a 56mph 40 ton lorry?
Can you imagine sitting on a bike front of one like that?
Some slight mechanical failure and he's squashed toast. All because his ego wants to overtake or cruise at his imagined speed on an over crowded motorway.
frankly questions of the original kind piss me off as they do no favours to all sensible motorcyclists.
"I've ridden a G3LS for 10,000 miles over 10 years." =1000 miles a year @52 weeks a year, that 20 miles a week, or omitting 6 months winter, 40 miles a week.
I ride as much as that just to get my shopping at weekends on a piaggio scooter.
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Way back in 1962 when I was an impoverished student I owned an S8. When I bought it, it was attached to a sidecar. Obviously that was very quickly removed and I rode it solo still with side car gearing because, I had no idea about how to convert it. Anyway why would I want to bother with that? It still functioned perfectly well was my logic. The S8 was my every day all weather transport for 2 years, and because I did not know any better it never got any maintainence. If the oil level got low it was topped up (Shell Tellus tractor oil) for some strange long forgotten reason. Due to the side car gearing, initially at least, it excelled on the traffic light grand prix well enough to impress me compared to the C11 that I had previously owned. It was a fate suffered by so many old bikes back then because they were both plentiful and cheap. In this case £15. Can't say fairer than that can you? Well, in spite of all that it proved to be utterly reliable, and only ever once let me down. The dynamo failed. I have no idea why, it might have been worn out brushes, it might have been totally shot, I really have no idea. Anyway the local bike shop fixed it and I was on the road again. I do remember once nearly loosing it due to the back end breaking away. That was at Manor House on the old wooden tram blocks that were still in place in the sixties. I was turning right into Seven Sisters Road from Green Lanes in the pouring rain. The surface was extremely slippery as I very nearly found out the hard way. Eventually the Sunbeam was sold when I was able to afford a BMC Minivan (I could not afford to insure and tax both of them). I have no idea what happened to it after that. I have very fond memories of that bike, I did a lot of miles on it. Most weekends I traveled from London to Huntingdon and I certainly used to press on a bit. Later on I bought a Douglas MK V a lovely little bike, but that is another story.
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Experiences shared by most of us that rode old bikes when they were just old bikes, and bikes were kings of the roads even the old 350 single could out run a Ford pop.
No 70mph HGVs
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The S7 & S8 always suffered a severe lack of street cred.A distant relative of mine bought one new from the first batch imported into my home state of Victoria. 1947-48 or thereabouts. He is long gone but the bike remains with his immediate family. They're convinced they have an exotic collectors piece worth a fortune and the main squabble is about who gets the money. My, is this bike ugly. The very first of them had a 'clean' handlebar and rather odd forks with no hydraulic damping. Not an elegant sight. Nevertheless he did a lot of touring on it and it never let him down. He loved it.
During my apprenticeship I also worked with an old boy who rode one down down from Darwin to Victoria in the mid -50s and had the newspaper clipping collected along the way to prove it. That is some 3500 miles. It did it quite easily. But given the state of the roads back then he definitely didn't cruise at 57 mph.
After half a century of development and tweaking by Stewart Engineering the beasts should be ultra reliable by now but they're still ugly and still have no street cred even though owners seem to love them and keep them forever.
Just one of those things I suppose.
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I've been browsing through some 1949 bike mags and the small ads for 1949 show in iteresting amount of nearly new S8 for sale.
I wonder why?
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33d6 Ugly ? The S7 is one of the most stunning British bikes built and its not just owners who think this is the majority of anyone who sees one be they a bike rider or not. Yes I am biased as I own one and out of all my bikes it is the one I will always keep. Yes you can maintain 60+ quite easy for long periods, I have traveled to london and back from Frome a few times on M4 and M3 at 70 and a bit more with no problems and also from my home to the Lake district 2 up again with some motorway driving. I would agree with mini me in that motorway driving is really not safe and will plan my next trips on any of my bikes to avoid motorways if possible but should I end up on one then I have no fears about not keeping up with the traffic. A S8 if properly maintained will be as fast and maybe even a better riding experience than my S7 but sadly it does not have quite the look and style of a S7 so I will not buy one myself but if you want one just maintain it and enjoy it.
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I have one and they will touch that sort of speed in fact the road test is high 70s I think.
But
They are not a brilliant engine. Get hot if used hard and then blow by and make crankcase pressure and leak oil.
Some seem better than others. Sweet little thing if used carefully.
45 to 50 is a better cruising speed.
The rear drives were weak but I think they detuned the engine to take the load off it.
So if kept full of oil should be ok.