classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: winchman on May 30, 2019, 08:15:56 PM
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My son went to an Auto Jumble and bought an engine as he thought it was from a bike, turns out its a 1934 Royal Enfield Model A.
So whilst looking for parts he find a 70% complete bike ( It was miles away too).
So her we are, two gear boxes both in bits and no idea how they should go together so any thoughts help would be appreciated.
We have three engines one seized two with the barrels off.
He wants to just get it back together and running, so he needs Wheels, mudguards, lights some of the fork parts.
Initially he can't afford originality so he is looking for any period bits just to get it back on the road.
Any help would be appreciated as it looks like there is very little info on these bikes, Royal Enfield etc don't seem to bother with pre war stuff?
We cant even find one in a museum?
Here is how it should look.
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Try contacting Hitchcocks motorcycles and ask them if they have any info or could point you in the right direction.They might have books/manuals etc. I was offered a competition Royal Enfield a couple of years ago that i wasn't 100% sure was a genuine competition bike so i sent them an email and got a very helpful reply from the main man. Worth a try!
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Thanks tried them first as its pre war they don't have anything, well only a gear box and a rusty back wheel from a newer model
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There's a coincidence: only yesterday in another topic http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=5942.15 I mentioned that the Model A Royal Enfield was sold in Australia as the Cottman Colt in the late 1930s.
Of course RE also sold bikes out here, and there a couple of surviving Model As, in addition to a few Cottman Colts. They a quite a nice little bike - not hugely valuable so a few not-quite-right parts in the rebuild won't matter.
First step: get a copy of "The Vintage Motorcyclist's Workshop" by Radco. It makes a great companion to any rebuilt.
Good luck,
Leon
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Thanks tried them first as its pre war they don't have anything, well only a gear box and a rusty back wheel from a newer model
If you can get a hold of a parts list, you may be surprised how much prewar stuff Hitchcocks have.
Model A parts may be different enough that they are a bit limited, but the small detail stuff is probably common,
and very helpful in piecing something workable together.
Ebay offers endless parts lists, some patience and persistence may be needed for the exact one you want.
havefun !
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There's a coincidence: only yesterday in another topic http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=5942.15 I mentioned that the Model A Royal Enfield was sold in Australia as the Cottman Colt in the late 1930s.
Of course RE also sold bikes out here, and there a couple of surviving Model As, in addition to a few Cottman Colts. They a quite a nice little bike - not hugely valuable so a few not-quite-right parts in the rebuild won't matter.
First step: get a copy of "The Vintage Motorcyclist's Workshop" by Radco. It makes a great companion to any rebuilt.
Good luck,
Leon
Thanks that all helps and gives us another brand to search for
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Thanks tried them first as its pre war they don't have anything, well only a gear box and a rusty back wheel from a newer model
If you can get a hold of a parts list, you may be surprised how much prewar stuff Hitchcocks have.
Model A parts may be different enough that they are a bit limited, but the small detail stuff is probably common,
and very helpful in piecing something workable together.
Ebay offers endless parts lists, some patience and persistence may be needed for the exact one you want.
havefun !
Thanks much of the 30's stuff is common, we do have a parts list but its for a later model
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You will find that wheels were shared with the common smaller sidevalves,and seem to be pretty common....Guards for anything are hard to find,and you will end up with Indian imports.
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Well that was a top tip, only found one colt but much is the same bits are different, but its a great way to see what parts should be like
https://www.facebook.com/pg/HVR.Australia/photos/?tab=album&album_id=631130383575003
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I see some 1935 catalogue pics in an old Classic Bike mag,and the two stroke is identical to the 250sv ,except motor and related parts......the forks are also pressed ,so wont be all that expensive or hard to find........
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I see some 1935 catalogue pics in an old Classic Bike mag,and the two stroke is identical to the 250sv ,except motor and related parts......the forks are also pressed ,so wont be all that expensive or hard to find........
The last owner struggled to find any parts, he managed to find a tank and the fork side plates but no other fork components, only thing we have seen is a carb for sale in Italy but we missed it and we have been offered some bits from Belgium but postage is expensive and out of the collection only a few bits look to be correct. Still no wheels or any tin wear, going to Newark again at the end of the month, tried a small local Jumble at the weekend but nothing.
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..the forks are also pressed ,so wont be all that expensive or hard to find........
Hmm, the Law of Supply and Demand says anything old or rare will be expensive, and I don't recall ever seeing any pressed girder forks for sale.
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..the forks are also pressed ,so wont be all that expensive or hard to find........
Hmm, the Law of Supply and Demand says anything old or rare will be expensive, and I don't recall ever seeing any pressed girder forks for sale.
This is our issue, we might drop on and find something the seller doesn't recognise and has been trying to sell for years then we might get it cheap, but as is often the case the smallest item is big money, so we have to be inventive the light switch is a car one as to was £2, the rivet counters won't like it but its all about getting this bike back on the road and riding it to local runs and events, we just have to use what we can get, make and afford. All too often a vehicle becomes a list of names of the people who have worked on it at great expense, this is a young lad with loads of enthusiasm and not much money who was inspired when he read "The Land Beyond The Ridge" and just wants an old bike.
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I just had a quick look in both the VMCC Library and at the BMS booklist and found quite a bit on the 1934 Model A. You can buy copies of the Owners handbook, illustrated spare parts list, hints and tips for owners and so forth. That should cover most of your info worries.
The electrics and coil ignition come via one of those Lucas dynamos with a set of points on the end as used in various 1930's makes not just Royal Enfield. The above sources cover such Lucas equipment as well.
Same goes for the Amal carb.
Being Royal Enfield the gearbox and clutch are bound to be an Albion which being only the 3 speed version as shown in the picture is the easiest of the lot to both work on and find parts for. You'll soon learn the relevance of Albion gearbox numbers and what to look for.
By far the best way to approach any restoration is to first gather as much information as you can. You can never have too many photos or photocopies of parts lists, catalogues, handbooks etc and there is lots about. The more info you gather the more you will find what cycle parts the Model A shared with the rest of the Royal Enfield range and what parts were used for year after year and are completely interchangeable.
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The forks are close enough to the post war 125 forks,to use a set......the post war wheels are also similar ,in that the rear has a sprocket one side ,brake t'uther........so If it was me ,I would look for the postwar 125 parts,and I dont believe they could be that hard to find..................and I notice you have the fork blades anyway..........the rest isnt hard to fabricate ...............................not wishing to hurt feelings here ,but Enfield tiddlers have always been bottom of the totem pole.....even a 500 single with girders never very expensive.......unfortunately the cheap WD models have fallen victim to the millenials desire to re enact WW2.......without the risk of injury or death ,of course........just got to see the recent D Day re enactment in France.....millenials saving the planet driving round in hundreds of trucks that get 1 mile to the gallon.
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Thanks, I was quite supposed he hasn't rushed in he has a good selection of info like you mentioned, and has rang every Lawnmower shop in the uk looking for a 30's Dennis mower carb as the same one was fitted, we very nearly bought a complete mower but the bloke didn't come back with a close up photo so it wasn't worth the risk, we even have a guide book on it which is excellent. The Gear box is unbranded we suspect made for Enfield, doesn't look like a Burman or Albion though, we have two both in bits so hoping we have enough to make one good one, we do have an end plate from another box that's marked Enfield but its different.
He has found the correct Lucas Magdyno thing but its £300 and has the typical weak spark, just waiting for the rest of the parts to arrive and he will build a basic electronic ignition until he can find a cheaper mag.
I think the next task whilst looking is to make a cover plate for the tank as it has a hole through it for the light switch and ammeter, it will put his sheet metal work skills to the test and teach him about different hammers.
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The forks are close enough to the post war 125 forks,to use a set......the post war wheels are also similar ,in that the rear has a sprocket one side ,brake t'uther........so If it was me ,I would look for the postwar 125 parts,and I dont believe they could be that hard to find..................and I notice you have the fork blades anyway..........the rest isnt hard to fabricate ...............................not wishing to hurt feelings here ,but Enfield tiddlers have always been bottom of the totem pole.....even a 500 single with girders never very expensive.......unfortunately the cheap WD models have fallen victim to the millenials desire to re enact WW2.......without the risk of injury or death ,of course........just got to see the recent D Day re enactment in France.....millenials saving the planet driving round in hundreds of trucks that get 1 mile to the gallon.
We had noticed the bike and Enfield Two strokes in general are not as sought after and lots of bits look to be interchangeable, its good being bottom of the pile as its more affordable! so this should help us out. I have had a few pointers from a Historic military vehicle forum and some parts leads but they are not quite right and not cheap.
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and some parts leads but they are not quite right and not cheap.
The days of doing up an old banger for a fiver are long gone, or you chose the wrong bike,
prewar stuff is in demand - a Honda 125 or 250 say may be different, and parts still plentiful.
I've been collecting parts for a prewar Enfield J for nigh on 20* years now
- its all the small detail bits that are tough to source if you didn't have them in the first place, and soon add up,
but at least Hitchcocks are filling that gap these days - even if they have doubled all their prices since I first looked !
* it has been on the backburner a lot of that time.
The sideways mounted Amal sidefloat has also been the source of much amusement/puzzlement, and perhaps we have conquered that. Perhaps.
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and some parts leads but they are not quite right and not cheap.
The days of doing up an old banger for a fiver are long gone, or you chose the wrong bike,
prewar stuff is in demand - a Honda 125 or 250 say may be different, and parts still plentiful.
He also has a 85 Honda XL125 and its extreme hard to find anything for it, I don't think people hang onto stuff like they did.
He has been looking for an exhaust for a few months as he can't pay £350 for a Honda one!
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I have some wheels, forks, guards and a carb body left from my resto which I would be happy to give a young fella to help him, but I'm sure the freight from Australia would be a killer.
Re the XL125, try Musket Mufflers in New Zealand, but the freight may again be a problem. Part No MH226
https://www.musketmufflers.com/pages/muffler-silencer-catalog
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I have some wheels, forks, guards and a carb body left from my resto which I would be happy to give a young fella to help him, but I'm sure the freight from Australia would be a killer.
Re the XL125, try Musket Mufflers in New Zealand, but the freight may again be a problem. Part No MH226
https://www.musketmufflers.com/pages/muffler-silencer-catalog
Thats very kind of you do you mean for the Enfield or XL? If its the Enfield that would be fantastic but I wonder what it would cost?
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There's a coincidence: only yesterday in another topic http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=5942.15 I mentioned that the Model A Royal Enfield was sold in Australia as the Cottman Colt in the late 1930s.
Of course RE also sold bikes out here, and there a couple of surviving Model As, in addition to a few Cottman Colts. They a quite a nice little bike - not hugely valuable so a few not-quite-right parts in the rebuild won't matter.
First step: get a copy of "The Vintage Motorcyclist's Workshop" by Radco. It makes a great companion to any rebuilt.
Good luck,
Leon
Thanks found it and some other great stuff here
https://www.billymegawatt.com/the-reading-room.html
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He also has a 85 Honda XL125 and its extreme hard to find anything for it, I don't think people hang onto stuff like they did.
He has been looking for an exhaust for a few months as he can't pay £350 for a Honda one!
There is a 1980 one in the USA for peanuts, but the postage might be a killer.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80-HONDA-XL125-XL-125-S-OEM-EXHAUST-MUFFLER-SILENCER-BAFFLE-SPARK-ARRESTOR/132930401958
The good thing about these is they are black, so a bit of heat resistant paint and they look like new.
It also means old ones can be welded and patched up, and the paint hides everything !
I agree this era stuff folks are not hoarding so much, but it means I got an XL175 front wheel for nix to try in a Douglas, until the duggie front brake
can be made to have some braking power and the wheel is made presentable. Which probably means it will become permanent...
If you are patient then Enfield parts will come to you, but its not an instant process - ask me how I know !
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He also has a 85 Honda XL125 and its extreme hard to find anything for it, I don't think people hang onto stuff like they did.
He has been looking for an exhaust for a few months as he can't pay £350 for a Honda one!
There is a 1980 one in the USA for peanuts, but the postage might be a killer.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80-HONDA-XL125-XL-125-S-OEM-EXHAUST-MUFFLER-SILENCER-BAFFLE-SPARK-ARRESTOR/132930401958
The good thing about these is they are black, so a bit of heat resistant paint and they look like new.
It also means old ones can be welded and patched up, and the paint hides everything !
I agree this era stuff folks are not hoarding so much, but it means I got an XL175 front wheel for nix to try in a Douglas, until the duggie front brake
can be made to have some braking power and the wheel is made presentable. Which probably means it will become permanent...
If you are patient then Enfield parts will come to you, but its not an instant process - ask me how I know !
Thanks but the USA spec is different the spark arrestor would be in the way of the air box or battery, postage is a tad expensive too but thanks for looking for us
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P.S. I can't help but be wondering if the XL wheels can be made to fit this beastie ?
It may not be quite right, but would defray costs somewhat.
And if you don't irreparably alter them/anything, can always go back.
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Well the first of two parcels have arrived from Belgium.
We have another engine and gear box, forks well most of them are in the other box along with some bits we haven't a clue about so when it arrives I will be asking for help again
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Anyhoo,there is no need to do everything straight away..........my advice,is to collect more bikes and bits,and everything will come together eventually.........Money cant buy happiness ,but it can buy lots of old motorbikes.Which is the same thing.
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Small update
He bought a small job lot of bits from a guy in Belgium, so now has a growing collection of engines!
We went to the Vmcc Founders day near Lutterworth, got a pair of forks, gear box and almost the correct carb.