classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: Baker_boy on June 25, 2019, 05:52:38 PM
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Afternoon all,
So basically I’m here for some help and advice. My search will be starting in a couple of months for a bike. Where would be the best place to find a vintage ole girl? I’m looking for something around the 1930s age, girder forked and 5/600cc Mark. I’d like a norton but they fetch very decent money. There’s a couple iv seen, one on verrals which is £8k which is just out of my price range but more time and I could stretch to it. Or Iv seen a lovely sunbeam which is £7k on eBay which I’m very tempted by. My old grandad used to ride Norton’s during the war and was a despatch rider and he was lucky enough to get given a Norton and said how good they were from the stories my dad has recalled to me. I don’t want to get mugged off on a bitsa bike, something original and matching numbers would be ideal.
Can anyone give any advise on either make? I know that’s quite a vague question, I’m not afraid to tinker and be patient. I’m not looking for a speed machine, I have a new bike for that, I just want a nice plodder with a bit of poke or That can carry a pillion with relative ease. It’s my bargaining chip with the wife that she comes out for rides and rallies 😂
Any help greatly received
Thanks Dave
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Good luck,
[mini-me sits back, puts feet up, opens beer, waits for the show to begin] ;)
PS, 1930s is not 'vintage'
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Thanks mini-me. I hope I’m not opening a can of worms here. Ha. Post vintage then? I’m still new to the old bike scene.
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I don't even know how to begin to reply to your request. As for sources, OBM, owners' clubs, dealers like Verralls or Reaney and Son, or even the dreaded Ebay.
You're taking on a bit of a task if you don't know what you're looking at or for though, and too easy to pay top money for a bitsa (even if it was built in the 1950s).
Lots of research before putting down the readies though. Many so-called experts have been had over the years.
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Welcome
My son has been after a similar project for some time and managed to find some of a 1934 Royal Enfield, just bought some parts for it from a very nice chap in Belgium, he just can't afford a complete one.
Saw 20's /30's Triumph at Crooklands Auto jumble a few weeks ago it was £8000 though
I would have a ride to Newark at the weekend as you just never know what will turn up
https://www.newarkautojumble.co.uk
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My advice to you, as someone who has yet to experience the "joys"of older bikes is you forget the 1930s idea and buy a post war rigid frame BSA, RE or AMC single, either 350 or 500 will be more than enough to cart yourself and missus about provided you aren't burger fanatics. They are basically pre war bikes with tele forks.
They all have active owners clubs, good spares back up. Don't buy a twin. or a 16H.
Also forget this nonsense about "poke" learn to ride a 70yr old bike first. I've seen too many try to ride a old bike as they would a modern one.
Sadly, unless you take long someone that knows,as opposed to someone who tells you he does, you have more than a 50% chance of buying a pig in a poke.
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Thanks winchman I didn’t think of Newark. Would be good to have a look round and see what’s what. I saw your post regarding what your son had brought. Interesting read. My dad has a lovely 1939 RE that he restored about 40 years ago. Is lovely but unfortunately never sees the light of day. Shame really.
I get what you mean mini-me. I wasn’t that clear in my first post. I’m looking at a sunbeam lion 500 and the Norton big four.
Previously I have Owned a bantam 175 for around 4 years before I had to sell it last year to get married but I am used to driving 20s and 50s cars and also traction engines so I am sympathetic to old motors. It was more the earlier stuff that I’m a bit unsure about. Thanks so far for the replies
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What’s your opinion on 16hs then? They not much good?
My advice to you, as someone who has yet to experience the "joys"of older bikes is you forget the 1930s idea and buy a post war rigid frame BSA, RE or AMC single, either 350 or 500 will be more than enough to cart yourself and missus about provided you aren't burger fanatics. They are basically pre war bikes with tele forks.
They all have active owners clubs, good spares back up. Don't buy a twin. or a 16H.
Also forget this nonsense about "poke" learn to ride a 70yr old bike first. I've seen too many try to ride a old bike as they would a modern one.
Sadly, unless you take long someone that knows,as opposed to someone who tells you he does, you have more than a 50% chance of buying a pig in a poke.
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My dad has a lovely 1939 RE that he restored about 40 years ago. Is lovely but unfortunately never sees the light of day.
There's your answer, work on him for a 'special rate' for family members !
Its likely to need recommissioning from standing so long, beat him down with this !
Hereabouts old Enfields don't have a very high resale value, given that you can buy a brand new one for not a vast amount of shekels.
And only the 30's 4 valve or compy or bronze head ones were anything special.
16H's are lovely old chuffers, and sorta representative of what old sidevalve bangers are all about.
But with a top speed absolutely wrung out of about 60 miles per give or take 1 or 2, if in as brand new condition,
it isn't going to burn up the motorway. In fact, should be kept right away from motorways.
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Ive had all sorts of old bikes for 50 years........and my advice is stay off the roads if you want to live.......simple fact is millenials cant go one minute without playing with a screen.......and will run you down and want to get off with a "sorry,didnt see you"
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If you want to take your wife out on the pillion do not try it with a rigid frame bike. She won't last to the first corner from home before she realise how uncomfortable it is and you are in the deep brown stuff.
Frankly a nice stodgy mid 50's 350 or 500 ohv single of common make fits your needs precisely but comes without any bragging rights or hero attributes at all. They are just simply practical, comfortable to ride, the passenger gets a comfy ride, pretty well supported for spares, easy to work on, fairly cheap, etc, etc, etc. Nevertheless they are a nice comfortable relaxed way in to the old bike world and soften up the domestic purse for the next purchase.
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Sadly, unless you take long someone that knows,as opposed to someone who tells you he does, you have more than a 50% chance of buying a pig in a poke.
This is a very good point and something we have experienced and still do, the self appointed expert. Best to do your own research but if the bikes cheap and what you want and looks the part its about you being happy with the look and the ride. My Son's won't be correct in every detail as he just cant afford to be, but its better back up and running than sat as a collection of bits in some ones shed
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On another point, don’t be afraid to haggle with a Dealer. If they have a good reputation like Verrals they have earned it so don’t expect miracles but cash will talk. The discount may not be as much because of that reputation but a dealer is also subject to consumer protection regulation in a way an Ebay seller isn’t. The next big jumble with a wide selection of oldies for sale is Founders Day. Google it if you don’t know it.
REgards, Mark
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What’s your opinion on 16hs then? They not much good?
A dog of a bike, heavy, slow, that gearbox is prone to so much wear, undersize chains, well over priced because of the Norton badge and the military blokes pushing the prices up.
still, if you want one, its your money.
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2X on that...... overpriced by the Norton name,and double overpriced now because of the tossers who want to be hooligans on military bikes at D Day reenactments.........
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The gearbox is fine, it's the clevis pins in the linkage that wear and they're easily replaced. That box was used on Inters and Manxes right up to the Featherbed ( as were the "undersized" 5/8 x 1/4 chains) so can't be too bad....
But I agree with the rest of what mini-me said.
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.......and those lugs on the top that wear and break?
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That is true. But not if the top and bottom bolts are kept tight.
I also agree about the re-enactors. We had the misfortune to travel to France via Brittany Ferries a week before the D day anniversary and the ship was infested with them swaggering about in their fake uniforms. I suspect the few remaining real veterans of that conflict view them with some disfavour...
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Believe me Iv tried and tried. Thing is it’s an untold thing in my family that my grandad who is unfortunately no longer with us was the last person to ride it before he passed and dad hasn’t taken it out since so there’s a lot of family attachment with it which I understand so I don’t push it. Dad does also have a 66 650 lightning but that currently has a few issues which I could possibly pry off of him but the thing is the girder forked bikes really get me going 😂 I think there’s just something about the look of them that I find so attractive. Hence why I want one so much.
Thank you everyone for all the tips so far. This is why I joined this forum because you guys seem to have a lot of experience riding different bikes and that’s what I’m looking for. As I havnt ridden any early bike as of yet I just don’t know how fast/slow they are. How they behave. I’ll sure as he’ll know when I buy one but I just want to get a good mix of opinions and thoughts so I can work out myself what could be good or bad. Obviously I’ll try before I actually buy but hearing from you guys your experiences and Thought is brilliant so keep them coming! I really do appreciate it. This is a new scene for me so trying to learn and research as much as I can. I’m only 30 so I have a lot to learn when to comes to these old steeds.
My dad has a lovely 1939 RE that he restored about 40 years ago. Is lovely but unfortunately never sees the light of day.
There's your answer, work on him for a 'special rate' for family members !
Its likely to need recommissioning from standing so long, beat him down with this !
Hereabouts old Enfields don't have a very high resale value, given that you can buy a brand new one for not a vast amount of shekels.
And only the 30's 4 valve or compy or bronze head ones were anything special.
16H's are lovely old chuffers, and sorta representative of what old sidevalve bangers are all about.
But with a top speed absolutely wrung out of about 60 miles per give or take 1 or 2, if in as brand new condition,
it isn't going to burn up the motorway. In fact, should be kept right away from motorways.
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And this is especially why I joined so I know these kind of details. . Thanks for the advice John.k,
33d6 - maybe that’s what I want ;D she won’t want to come out on it again then 😂 ‘what a shame’
What’s your opinion on 16hs then? They not much good?
A dog of a bike, heavy, slow, that gearbox is prone to so much wear, undersize chains, well over priced because of the Norton badge and the military blokes pushing the prices up.
still, if you want one, its your money.
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30? still in nappies then......
I'm 72, been into vintage/post vintage bikes since I was 16, still got one I bought in 1967, but then I'm odd any, why? its indefineable, something about ancient mechanics is fascinating.
just don’t know how fast/slow they are.
They are just slow, a modern 125 will see most of them off.
How they behave.
They don't they misbehave, live with it. travel with tools and spare cables and plug, and the phone numbe rof a recovery service.
They are a steep learning curve, you need to learn to ride a whole new way, don't even think about keeping up with modern traffic, just let it go past you, you'll catch it all up soon enough.
To sum up, I have a bike from the 1920s, another from the 1930s, and one from 1950s I would not trade any of them for a brand new modern bike.
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The 1931 Sunbeam on ebay seems quite lovely, and the seller has a plausible story. Better to buy from an owner/rider than a dealer? The Marston Sunbeam Cub and Register seems like a really great club, with lots of events and interest in the bikes themselves. Their magazine is superb - I read every copy cover to cover even though I am not a member and I don't own a Sunbeam.
I'd gladly have the bike in my shed, and I think it would be an ideal way for a "newbie" to enter the "vintage" movement, despite the slightly non-vintage build date. I'm sure the current owner could advise on joining the club and getting involved in the events.
Cheers
Leon