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Messages - cardan

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31
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 14, 2023, 12:12:59 AM »
An advert for the AD (A Delaune) fork from June 1925. "1 or 2 springs", and various sizes. This is the straight-front-tube style like on the Claude Delage, but I guess they could have made the version on the Atania and the Dé Dé. Munro-Saxon (think Saxon fork in the UK) and AD were the two consistent advertisers of forks in the mid 1920s.

Leon

32
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 13, 2023, 11:47:55 PM »
Quote from: 33d6 on December 13, 2023, 11:17:40 PM
De-De doesn’t have an  Albion gearbox.

Well that one doesn't, it's probably the 3 speeder. Maybe the 2-speeder (which had a visibly shorter gear lever) was Albion. [Edit: should have read the article more closely - seems the 2-speeder was a Staub.] There was also a direct drive version, and four strokes, and ... all this in one year (1926) from a make most of us have never heard of!

Interesting to speculate what engine the Atania might have used. One of the big French houses advertised both Albion boxes and Villiers engines, but it seems that in the mid 1920s there were not too many French makers using the Villiers. Lots of unusual (to us) French-made two-stroke engines: for example the engine in the Claude Delage is a 175cc Lescanne, with the magneto driven off the end of the crank, like Union in the UK.

I'm a bit out of my depth...

Cheers

Leon

33
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 13, 2023, 11:29:59 PM »
Yes there are a lot of "typical" French lightweights - if we were talking a UK/Australian thing we'd probably have lots of sage comments about the componentry, build etc! I think a French expert is required.

Here's another with similarities to the Atania: the Claude Delage.

Re dates: The loop frame Atania was registered in Feb 1927 - I'd assume it was a new bike then, say 1926 build. I don't think the other survivor could be any later than that, so my guess would be 1924-26. Nothing on the bike looks very 1920.

Cheers

Leon


34
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 13, 2023, 09:40:15 PM »
Yes, plenty to compare here... http://zhumoriste.over-blog.com/article-de-de-et-le-mystere-des-moteurs-duten-113737594.html

Leon

35
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 13, 2023, 09:34:06 PM »
Brilliant. Who'd have thought that there could be two such similar sets of Atania remains! Looks like this bike is still out there somewhere - maybe the current owner has sorted out the history?

Interesting that this one has the double-spring fork, which in the press of the day seems to be more common than the single-spring variety. I turned the pages on a large pile of 1923-1926 French magazines and noticed things that looked like this one - with the double-spring fork and loop frame - but passed them by! Dé Dé from memory, but I will have to check.

Good puzzle.

Leon

36
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 12, 2023, 10:09:08 PM »
I wonder if the towers on the headbadge could be https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_la_D%C3%A9couverte in Lorient.

Leon

37
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 12, 2023, 12:33:41 PM »
Quote from: Iano on December 11, 2023, 12:05:01 PM
One gentleman was researching it and found one reference
about someone having a frame about 20 years ago. but that's it.

Is this the reference? https://www.lva-moto.fr/forum/topic-2608-atania-page-1.html Unfortunately the links to photos no longer work.

The original poster was in Bretagne Sud - perhaps close to Lorient - and gave this info:

Je possède depuis plusieurs années une moto dont je n'ai que le cadre avec l'immatriculation. J'ai fait des recherches en préfecture et voici le résultat:
marque: ATANIA
Puiss.: 2CV
Type: MI 1800
N°: 1/08
mise en circulation: 12/02/1927

So he had only the frame and rego number - presumably this is the bike you have now?

Looking again at the head badge, I notice that the rivets that hold it on are very rough indeed. Made of steel too - usually they would be plated brass. Until you establish definitively that Barbet made a motorcycle or two, I reckon you should leave open the possibility that someone (Barbet?) put an Atania bicycle head badge on an older motorcycle and registered it as an Atania?? It's going to be tricky to research: I think you'll need to go to the local newspaper.

Good luck!

Leon

38
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 12, 2023, 12:15:38 PM »
Quote from: cardan on December 12, 2023, 12:09:37 PM
Barbet registered the name Atania for his bicycles and bicycle parts in October 1921

In fact he lodged the application for registration in March 1921.

Leon

39
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 12, 2023, 12:11:27 PM »
Woops, overlapped.

I wonder if the carb top is Longuemare, which (with AMAC) was one of the common ones on French lightweights in the 1920s.

Leon

40
European and Other Bikes / Re: Albion Gearbox Identification
« on: December 12, 2023, 12:09:37 PM »
Yes presumably we're some around 1924-25? By 1926-27 even lightweights were doing away with belt drive and getting a front brake.

Albion boxes of all sorts were advertised in the French magazines of the day, for example in La Revue Motorcycliste et Automobile in August 1925 below, and were used in many French bikes.

Atania is a new one on me. Must have been a very small manufacturer, presumably M. Jean Barbet of Lorient (in the Morbihan district in Bretagne (Brittany), France? Barbet registered the name Atania for his bicycles and bicycle parts in October 1921 - no mention of motorcycles so presumably they came along a year or two later.

I have quite a few books on French motorcycles, but Atania is not mentioned in any of them. Atania was not exhibited at the annual shows in Paris in late 1924 (unsurprisingly), nor did it appear in a comprehensive list of French manufacturers for 1925 in La Revue 10 November 1924.

Based on my experience with small Australian makes, I'd guess that Barbet [edit: not Bardet] either built the bikes from available parts, as suggested by 33d6, or put his bicycle head badge on a machine made for him by someone else.

Speaking of the head badge, I wonder if it was specially made for Atania? Hard to see in the photo, but it looks like it might be a generic badge, onto which you stamped your own brand - in this case CYCLES ATANIA. Are the radial marks to help you line up your letters in a nice arc?

Tell us what you know!

Cheers

Leon

41
British Bikes / Re: Electronic ignition - ammeter connections
« on: December 09, 2023, 01:14:46 AM »
At least there it would tell you if the battery was charging or discharging, which is probably what you want to know?

Leon

42
British Bikes / Re: Australian-made motorcycles in the 1950s - help please
« on: November 18, 2023, 10:40:44 AM »
Ah yes - I actually came across a real Malvern Star at a "Show and Shine" here in SA a couple of weeks ago, and I had a close look. The first time I have actually examined one close up!

Although it was badged as "1945" it had an 8M frame prefix (on the seat lug), so 1948. The engine number was 586/9150 - the prefix as noted by 33d6 for the postwar Malvern Star models. I had a chat with the owner and the bike was purchased many years ago (say 25) in Queensland, so not sure where it was originally sold. Does it appear on your Victorian list 33d6?

It was very cute, and I enjoyed looking at the detail. Particularly the "low temperature welded" frame. It had been restored from a very original machine.

Cheers

Leon

43
British Bikes / Re: 1910s/1920s Silver paint?
« on: October 18, 2023, 11:47:29 PM »
Here's a Rudge tank - previously quite rusty on the surface - after a week in a molasses solution.

Leon

44
British Bikes / Re: 1910s/1920s Silver paint?
« on: October 18, 2023, 10:41:38 AM »
Yes I don't think there's much chance of a line of restored Triple Hs displaying their silver tanks! Important to have a silver that looks 1920s rather than 2020s though... I like Ian's Norton colour and finish.

Leon

45
British Bikes / Re: 1910s/1920s Silver paint?
« on: October 16, 2023, 12:23:09 PM »
Hi Keith,

Oh it's gorgeous! If it were mine I wouldn't paint it at all... just do the mechanicals, deep clean, and give it a wipe-over with lanolin or similar as it goes back together. The next person can paint it if they want to.

But silvers: ever seen a line-up of restored veteran Triumphs? All silver, but not quite the same silver.

The problem is the way old silver paints change as they age, so trying to guess the original colour is fraught. Anyway there is lots of chat about appropriate colours for the many bikes that used silver as the main tank colour, e.g. Douglas https://www.douglasmotorcycles.net/index.php?topic=5846 The last time I had a silver tank painted (a locally-made "Bullock") I did use a silver with a little bit of fine "metal flake" in it. I was very happy as it looks good but doesn't sparkle too much in the sun! Triumph (and probably others) referred to their silver as "aluminium" - maybe it had some aluminium in it?

When I do paint, it's to stop metal going rusty, so I just use an etch primer topped by "epoxy enamel", both from rattle cans. A bit embarrassing, but I'm more interested in originality, well-functioning mechanicals, and history. And I'm rubbish at painting!

Cheers

Leon

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