classic motorcycle forum

We've talked quite a lot about vintage Excelsiors here, so when I saw a "1914 Excelsior Junior" for sale on ebay UK (actually just spruiking its sale at an upcoming Iconic auction) I was interested. The bike has a 269 Villiers engine and a Burman 2-speed box with ks. Very pretty indeed. "Pioneer Certificate eligible (but not included)" they say.

The only problem is it's not 1914.

When the same bike was sold in 2014 by Bonhams it was a "c1920 Excelsior" and "Offered with V5C (incorrectly registered 1914) for its Warwickshire number."

When it was sold again by H&H in 2017 it had magically become "1914 Excelsior Junior", with "PLEASE NOTE: This motorcycle dates from 1914 and not as previously stated."

Sell it again in 2023 and it's a "1914 Excelsior Junior" and "Pioneer Certificate eligible (but not included)".

For the record, in March 1919 Excelsior's first post war model was an Excelsior Villiers, with a "flat" tank, and the Motor Cycle stated, "This is the first time an Excelsior has been marketed with a Villiers engine." At the end of 1919 Excelsior announced that their lightweights for 1920 would have sloping tanks. And a 269cc Villiers with a "B" prefix would be a Mk III, built in 1920-21?

Why is memory so short? Where has the expertise gone?  Who was the genius who ignored many clues to redate the bike at 1914? Nice bike, though.

Leon

Bonhams Autumn Stafford Sale, 19 Oct 2014: "c1920 Excelsior" "Offered with V5C (incorrectly registered 1914) for its Warwickshire number."
https://www.bonhams.com/auction/21898/lot/279/property-of-a-deceased-estatec1920-excelsior-269cc-frame-no-tba-engine-no-a4634/

H&H National Motor Museum Sale, 2 June 2017: "1914 Excelsior Junior" "PLEASE NOTE: This motorcycle dates from 1914 and not as previously stated."
https://www.handh.co.uk/auction/lot/lot-136---1914-excelsior-junior/?lot=15636&so=0&st=&sto=0&au=389&ef=&et=&ic=False&sd=1&pp=48&pn=3&g=1

Iconic Auctioneers NEC Classic Motor Show Sale 12 Nov 2023: "1914 Excelsior Junior" "Pioneer Certificate eligible (but not included)"
https://www.iconicauctioneers.com/1914-excelsior-junior-rec12712-1-nec-1123?pn=1&el=21134&pp=50

Good plan re doing the seat first. It's a Messinger No. 1 - much sought after in the US for various Indian/Harley machines - but don't forget to paint it black! Nice restoration in the Invincible in the photo.

Leon

I feel a bit nostalgic, but well under control. $9100 with a couple of hours to go.

Leon

That's probably a good buy if you can register it and ride it as a club bike. No problem at all until you come to sell it on.

Leon

For the Comet? Yes indeed. It's really nice.

Leon

The cam is in there, so some hope there are followers too. I don't think there's anything impossible about the rebuild, but it is a really big job. Still, it has some really hard-to-find bits. Fun for someone.

Leon

I'm having the Series A Comet: https://online.doningtonauctions.com.au/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/139

Just one of the many options that seem more palatable than the ebay Vincent! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/334961527827

Leon

"The bike is sold on an 'as is / where is' basis with all faults. Bidders must satisfy themselves with the condition of the bike, its provenance, originality and the restoration work required before bidding. There are no refunds."
 
Not for the inexperienced or the faint-hearted! Provenance? None.

I'd be quite confident that if you tried to register this bike in South Australia - even for club registration - they would knock it back on the basis of the dodgy stampings. A big gamble, and I assume the offers for the bike will reflect this.

Leon