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Messages - 33d6

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991
Identify these bikes! / Re: Villiers Mark V1-C
« on: October 16, 2009, 06:30:15 AM »
Hi Nigel,
I don't know that anyone has ever bothered to list all the manufacturers who offered a bike powered by a 147cc Villiers. If they did it would run to a couple of dozen at least. It's a bit like asking how many different 50cc models have Honda made. Only a real anorak would know.
You have to remember this engine was fitted to bikes from 1922 to 1932 when Villiers brought out their new 148cc engine to replace it.
Names range from the well known like Francis-Barnett to some remarkably obscure stuff like the Carfield and the Ray that are long forgotten.
Be very careful with old two-strokes or you'll get sucked in like I am. They aren't fast, they aren't particularly comfortable, they don't stop particularly well but the fun factor is enormous. You'll find hill climbing is an exciting sport and you get a big thrill if ever you manage to overtake anything. I love'em.
Cheers,

992
Identify these bikes! / Re: Villiers Mark V1-C
« on: October 14, 2009, 05:20:58 AM »
This is interesting. Justin was spot on in everything he wrote and this will be an absolute first, a prewar Villiers engine with no prefix to the engine number.
Can I ask,
a) What information has been cast into the back of the cylinder on the transfer port, and
b) What diameter is the inlet manifold where the carburettor clips on?

Last thing, most of these engines were fitted with a decompression valve regardless of what it was originally fitted too. I've only ever seen it deleted on some of these engines fitted to very cheap ATCO mowers. Most mowers and other non motorcycle applications still had them fitted to assist starting and to stop the wee beasties.
These are marvellous wee engines. I've done many miles on a 2 speed Excelsior powered by one. I never knew I could have so much fun riding such a tiny little bike. It completely won me over.
Cheers,

993
Identify these bikes! / Re: What year is this Excelsior
« on: October 05, 2009, 07:40:35 AM »
I shouldn't write answers after just getting off the plane. The brain  turns to mush.
I have now woken up a bit and have hunted out some obscure Excelsior stuff I have and can now say that Excelsior used the letters DS as their 1950 frame number prefix. Is the OS/3808A really DS/3808A? They added a W in 1951 to WDS so as you describe a two figure prefix only it seems you have a 1950 model.
Also, just to stir the pot a little, the engine number prefix used on 10D powered Excelsiors exported to my home state of Victoria in 1950 was 932, the same prefix as used by OEC. How come OEC and Excelsior shared the same prefix I don't know. There could be many simple commercial explanations. As OEC were quite small time compared to Excelsior it could be something as simple as Excelsior just onselling some of their engines to OEC particularly as Excelsior had just started to manufacture their own 148cc engine for the same bike. Probably Excelsior had high hopes of their engine being more popular than the Villiers so they didn't need all the 10D engines they had bought. Who knows after all this time.
Whatever the story, back in the '50's the Victorian State Police regarded engines with a 932 prefix as Excelsior.
Cheers, jet lag joe.

994
Identify these bikes! / Re: What year is this Excelsior
« on: October 04, 2009, 11:51:46 PM »
Well, back from holidays and another Villiers question to answer. JustinF has given you the basic info all I can do is clarify things a little more. Little is known of exact Excelsior frame and engine numbers up to 1954 or thereabouts. possibly the VMCC marque specialist could tell you but its really not a great issue as like most British firms of the day Excelsior sold the same basic bike but installed either their own or Villiers engines of different capacities and gave it a different model name. In its day your bike was sold with the 122cc 10D Villiers engine, Excelsiors own 148cc engine or the 197cc 6E Villiers fitted. The only other difference lay in the quality of electric lighting fitted. The cheap model had direct lighting (brightened and dimmed as engine revs rose and fell) or rectified lighting with a battery that ensured both a consistent lighting level plus you could fit a stop light on the brakes.
As far as the engine number is concerned don't read too much into the fact that it has a 10D engine originally fitted to another make of bike.  Old Villiers stuff was so cheap for so many years that it was cheaper to replace an engine with another second hand engine from the wreckers rather than spend good money on rebuilding a worn out one. For that matter even if you went to a dealers and had a reconditioned exchange engine fitted there was no guarantee your replacement would have a appropriate engine number for your make of bike. Broadly speaking all 10D engines are the same, it doesn't matter what make of bike it was fitted in. A 10D engine is a 10D engine, the make of bike is pretty irrelevant.
Anyway, your bike looks very original except for the paint job of course, and should give you lots of fun.
You can get copies of all the necessary technical material, manuals, transfers, catalogues, etc from the english Vintage Motor Cycle Club. They have a website www.vmcc.net and are very helpful.
Cheers,

995
Identify these bikes! / Re: What bike? Pic dated 1938
« on: August 14, 2009, 02:39:50 AM »
Those are very interesting photos if only that they show the British industry sold their products under different names in different countries.
Mr F E Baker was involved in the motorcycle trade way back before the First World War. He made a well known brand of  proprietary engine, the Precision which rivalled J.A.P. in its day but never quite got back to its former position after the war. In 1928 he he came back with the Baker range of Villiers engined bikes. These lasted until the early thirties when his firm was bought by James who used many of his ideas in the manufacture of their bikes.
The Villiers engine used in your grandfathers bike was introduced in 1936, years after James had bought Baker so it is really a James but rebadged as a Baker for some commercial reason now lost in time.
As you say, the capacity could be either 98 or 125 cc. There were certain taxation advantages in some European countries reducing the capacity to 98cc, so this engine was made in both capacities although you can't tell one from t'other from the outside.
They are lovely family photos and as owner of a 1951 James I find them a tiny but fascinating piece of history, showing how the british motorcycle industry operated back in the 1930's.
Thanks for letting us see them.

996
Identify these bikes! / Re: AJS need help to identify....
« on: March 28, 2009, 07:28:06 PM »
Looks late 20's from the photo but AJS are very easy to identify precisely from the engine and frame numbers.
AJS were also one of the very few factories to give both the frame and the engine the same matching numbers so you can both identify the year and check up on whether the engine is the original one for the bike by seeing if the numbers match.
Of greater value and in far greater demand than the cheapo MZ you are also interested in.
Cheers,

997
Identify these bikes! / Re: Ariel 600cc Engine, can anyone confirm this?
« on: April 19, 2009, 09:29:52 AM »
Certainly looks to be 600cc VB Ariel but a photo up the right way and showing it all would help.
You can further help by measuring the bore and telling us what it measures plus tell us how many head studs it has. If I remember my VB Ariels correctly they increased the number of head studs when they upgraded to an alloy head in the 50's so we can give you a better date if we know how many stud holes it has.
Cheers.

998
Identify these bikes! / Re: Pre-war Excelsior, but what model?
« on: April 27, 2009, 06:48:30 AM »
Hi again,
I didn't say the frame was 1930, I said Excelsior used the A prefix on their frame numbers in 1931.
You cannot have a 1930 350ohv Excelsior. They didn't list any 350ohv models for 1930.
Excelsior listed two 350ohv models for 1931. The model A10 Special Sports and the model A11 Sport. It is either one of those. Buy a copy of the 1931 catalogue and you can see what they look like.
Cheers,

999
Identify these bikes! / Re: Pre-war Excelsior, but what model?
« on: April 25, 2009, 11:58:55 AM »
Could you have misread the frame prefix? If you look again could it be A11, not AW?
Excelsior started to use a year prefix on their frame numbers in 1931. A for 1931, B for 1932, C for 1933 and so on. Anything having A as the first letter of the frame prefix would be from 1931.
Excelsior listed a 350cc OHV Sports Model No A11 on page 12 of their 1931 catalogue and your bike has an identical specification.
If the frame number starts A11 it would confirm it.
As for information, the VMCC Library is the obvious place, they will have everything you need. Just remember this is an assembled bike, you may have to obtain information seperately for the JAP engine, the Albion gearbox and Druid forks.
Lovely bike, remember that Excelsior won the 1929 Lightweight TT. This is a 350ohv version of the same bike. The prewar Excelsior is a very desirable bike.
Cheers,

1000
Identify these bikes! / Re: Can anyone identify this bike...
« on: October 05, 2008, 04:12:48 AM »
Can we have the frame number as well please.
Cheers,

1001
Identify these bikes! / Re: Can anyone identify this bike...
« on: October 04, 2008, 09:34:26 AM »
As far as I remember Bayliss & Thomas made cars under their own name but their bikes were always sold as Excelsiors. This bike dates from around the mid 20's when the Excelsior brand had been around for many years.
Looks like it would make a pleasant vintage machine. Light and handy.
Cheers,

1002
Identify these bikes! / Re: im new and need help :)
« on: March 12, 2009, 09:27:31 PM »
Vintage AJS are very easy to identify because first the number on both engine and frame were identical and secondly they identified the year by a letter prefix. As in your example, the letter M for 1929.
One quick look shows whether a bike is all original or not plus what year it is.
They were a manufacturer who really made it easy for people like us to identify them years and years later plus they made highly desirable bikes anyway.
Its very easy to get copies of the original sales catalogues from the VMCC Library for comparison purposes but understand that factories back then would happily alter things to suit a buyer if it meant a sale and they also had a habit of changing things for overseas markets so you do get unique variations from bike to bike that are very hard to identify as original or not.
Lovely bike.

1003
Identify these bikes! / Re: british scooter???
« on: January 30, 2009, 03:33:04 AM »
Regardless of which British scooter this turns out to be (and L.A.B is probably right) the fact it has a Villiers engine makes it very easy to sort out.
The basic engine is standard Villiers but usually enclosed in a cowling with  fan cooling seeing it sits under the seat out of sight. Some variants have an electric start, commonly a Siba Dynastart and this about doubles the complication of the very basic Villiers electrical system. (Still idiot simple by todays standards.)
Good news is there is lots of information available, Villiers spares are not a problem and the electrics are very amenable to upgrades using modern solid state components which makes everything very reliable.
Tell us the engine number and we can go further.
Cheers,

1004
Identify these bikes! / Re: norwegian barn dinding+++
« on: January 25, 2009, 06:32:12 AM »
Sorry friend,
S 6406 makes no more sense than B 6406. We are no further forward.
Cheers,

1005
Identify these bikes! / Re: norwegian barn dinding+++
« on: January 20, 2009, 09:57:54 PM »
B6406 is a very strange engine number for any Villiers engine. As M3bobby says, a WD ML engine number starts with AAA but civilian models are different. The number should start with a 3 figure number. for example, 539/****. B6406 sounds more like a casting number than an engine number. Some postwar 9Ds had the engine number stamped on a brass plate near the gear change and this can fall off leaving just the two mounting holes. Is there anything like this?
Cheers,

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