classic motorcycle forum

Hi,

In my experience, when those machines were current, it was considered good money wasted to throw away good oil just because "it was black" to replace it with fresh oil which would "be black" itself in a couple of hundred miles.  Owners would perpetually top the oil up rather than change it causing premature wear, and as the timing side bush wore the oil was lost because of excess clearance rather than be pumped through to the big ends.  Hence big end siezure.  It always seemed to be the drive side that siezed, which was logical since that side got the least amount of oil.

A50's and A65's suffered similar maladies and, like the A7/10 got the reputation as rod breakers.

I have experience of examples which were neglected and ones which were looked after.  A person I was in contact with bought an A10 with a sidecar which had always been run as an outfit with over 100K miles.  It was a little rough, always having been kept in the street, but as it was the man's sole form of transport apart from his bicycle, and because lube oil was free to him (he was a maintenance fitter in a large factory, I worked in the same factory) he used to change it regularly when on night shift.  He bought a new Ford Escort Mk1 when it was just a Ford Escort (the Mk2 had'nt yet been seen), because the Mrs was getting a little wide in the hips and was experiencing some difficulty getting in and out of the sidecar.  She could have worn it as a coat if he had taken it off the bike!

It lay outside his door for about 6 years after he bought the car, then he sold it to my friend who also worked there and who decided to "restore" it (pot of black hammerite and a two inch brush) and at the same time, decided to re-bore it as it was smoking a bit , being on it's original bores and pistons witch had been disturbed once at 70k miles for new rings.

He asked my opinion about the bottom end, which he was convinced should be beyond redemption.  I measured the big ends and found about 1 thou ovality in the journals with the major diameter 2 thou undersize, and  similar wear on the timing side main.  I recommended new standard shells which were fitted with a piece of one-and-a-half thou shim steel under the shells of the big end caps.  The old boy made him a new timing-side bush a couple of thou undersize to suit the crank, from a piece of phosphor-bronze (same as original, I think), turned on a centre lathe and finished with an adjustable reamer.  I assembled the bottom half for him with a new driveside bearing, and told him to change the oil every 2 to 3 thousand miles. he moved to England shortly after, and I was surprised to see him about six years later with 50K more on it.  Apart from new valves and guides when he was "across the water", he had not touched it.  What really did surprise me though, was that he had re-finished all the painted parts, re-built the wheels and re-upholstered and refurbished the sidecar.  It was hard to believe it was the same outfit.

I knew an A65 which broke the drive side rod before 30k, the fella had been boasting that he just pours it in, it runs out all over the road. Then he said they were "soft", and they all had bottom-end problems.

I also knew (not well) of three racing outfits, and another more closely. the fella I knew better was using secondhand engines (he had a couple for the racer) plus a Lightning, I think with a Watsonian Monza for the road.  He spent about £120 at the time for a roller bearing timing side conversion when a new 250 Suzuki onl cost about 4 times as mutch.  Not that he'd broke a rod - he was just afraid he might.

If the bearings are not already nackered, thin oil is ok in my opinion.

A.

  

Hi all,

I would like to purchase a Villiers 197 engined bike any make or post-war year considered.

I will pay a good price for a good machine.

No AMC engined bikes considered.

A.

Hi Nigel, and contributors,

Congradulations on your excellent site, which I have found to be generally interesting, invoking not a little nostalgia on my part.

I wonder, however at the relevance of the following three "topics", one of which appears to be trying to sell some sort of useless trinket and the other two, judging by some of the links, something to do with drugs.

http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=22;action=display;num=1147489062
http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=22;action=display;num=1147479043
http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=22;action=display;num=1147477723

I have not followed any of the links as actions like this may not be safe, and I would advise others to beware.

I would be interested in the opinions of Vintagebike and others on these "topics".

A.

Hi,

In Northern Ireland (still part of the UK although rules have at times been different and, to some extent, still are), when the 125 limit was introduced replacing the old 250 limit, older qualifying machinery could still be used to learn and take the test on.

I think the same applied in the rest of the UK since it was not seen as fair or practical to disqalify everyone who for any reason did not want to buy a new bike, although I remember "leaning" sidecars being sold to keep 250,s learner legal.

The last person I knew to take the test on a 250 did so in the early '90's (in NI) on a 250MZ which was old enough at that time to qualify.

I have little to refer to except my memory, although I will at some time run across this person (not literally   ), and have the opportunity to check my facts.

My point is that it may be worth checking thouroughly the rules and regulations in this regard, as exceptions may be found.

Good luck.

A.

It could be a Peel "Mountain Mile" fairing as used frequently on British Racing machines of the late '50's? / early '70's.

But then it could also be intended for road use as they also made fairings for Honda machines of the sixties, among others - an aperture for a headlamp would be a dead giveaway.

The number on the plate may identify it if you can find someone in possesion of the factory records.

Peel also built a microcar with a 50cc engine called the P50 in the early sixties, to be followed a couple of years later by the "Trident" with a larger engine of 98cc and revised styling.

Try "googling" "Peel mountain mile" and "Peel microcar" .


Unpainted and never mounted with the plate intact? Someone will want that!

Let us know what you find out.

A.

Hi Z,

Get a carter to pick it up. You may find a specialist who will handle the whole operation, or you could organise it yourself. This could mean crating it or palletising it. The more that your dad does to prepare it the cheaper it will be. The local Harley dealer might crate it at a price using a crate from a machine they have sold as they probably scrap these. Paperwork would have to be sorted and the advice of a shipping agent could be useful, although not essential. Insurance on the other hand, is.

Ride it. Join the AA or RAC, the Harley Owners Group or other such club, arrange insurance (classic) and an Mot at your local station, fly out there and after checking the bike for safety and fitness for the journey home, head North. If you are travelling to a pre-arranged MOT, you don't need road tax and you may ride without a current certificate. This may not be strictly legal. The motoring org. will help if you break down, as may members of the HOG or other specialist club. "Break" it so they can't fix it and are required to bring it "home" as per cover.

If you do ride it, check oil levels (engine, gearbox and primary drive) before you ride it and at very frequent intervals thereafter, 'till you have an idea of oil consumption which, because of a thirst not experienced in modern machinery due to a combination of oil leaks and general consumption, could surprise you. This could be as high as 100 or less miles per pint and probably no better than 300 or 400 mpp at best depending on engine condition (and leaks). Don't wear your best, most flambuoyantly coloured leathers, and be prepared to be very afraid at the clatter that the engine makes relative to what you are used to

If all this seems too much trouble, give it to me   and I will get it home.

Everybody raves about the "heavyweight twins" and rates the "Sporty" a "girls bike" but personally, I like the Sportster because it can be made to corner and stop.

Good luck to you and safe home.

A.

Hi,

It's been many years since I have looked at the VIN on a Norton, and more since I owned one (the last was a '67 Atlas), so this info may not be 100% accurate, but I hope it helps.

The VIN is situated on the left side rear fillet plate that the engine/gearbox plates bolt to, just below and in line with the uppermost bolt hole reading vertically from the top down.

The photo you posted has a shaded area in this position which I think is the VIN on that frame; your frame should have the number in or about the same location.

It should start with two digits (model code), one letter (year of manufacture), and five or six digits (number in series).

Expect some irregularity in these, as they were stamped by hand.

The Norton owners club, one of the specialist dealers or the Vintage Motorcycle Club should be able to tell you the year, model and possibly even the dealer who sold the machine.

The flat indentation on the inside of the right upper frame tube is to allow clearance for the rockerbox of the sigle cyl. engines, so the frame in the photo (and your frame also) is from one of these, likely an ES2.

The twins did not have this indentation.

I wish you the best of luck with your project.

A.