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British Bikes / Re: A Tale of Two Gearboxes
« Last post by john.k on April 13, 2026, 04:07:41 PM »
probably  a selective fit  in original manufacture ...always a problem when you  no longer have a wide selection of parts to chose from ..........i recall   something  like that with IH  truck  gearboxes when I jammed a tight first gear onto the mainshaft  hoping it would free up in use .....it   was  too tight  to  change gear ,and so never got a chance to free up.........and I got a  kick   up   the jaxi  from the boss.
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British Bikes / Re: A Tale of Two Gearboxes
« Last post by R on April 10, 2026, 06:27:58 AM »
Aye.
Since one is not like the other, something is badly wrong here !
Can you see if the free one is bushed inside (as it should be ?)

If that gear was fixed to the shaft, then any notion of 'constant mesh' gears goes out the window !
And since the fixing seems none too permanent, press required regardless, seems wrong....

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nV8AAOSwv~NlsRlm/s-l1600.jpg
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British Bikes / Re: A Tale of Two Gearboxes
« Last post by Rex on April 09, 2026, 05:42:55 PM »
Assemble the boxes and see which one works, or look at the assembly drawing/gear positions and see?
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British Bikes / A Tale of Two Gearboxes
« Last post by ramwing7 on April 08, 2026, 09:58:05 PM »
I have a 1949 BSA B31.  The gearbox is a mess so I got another hoping to use two to make one serviceable.
I've come up with a situation that I cannot find any information on.
In one gearbox the mainshaft gear (24-4231) slides on the shaft easily.  In the other it took 5 tons of pressure to remove the gear from the shaft and if it goes back on, it will take a press to get it there. The easily moveable one will not slide on the other shaft either.
Question is:  Which it correct?
                   Does the mainshaft gear move along the mainshaft in normal operation or is it supposed to be fixed and stationary during operation?

Many Thanks.
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rockburner on April 08, 2026, 08:01:00 PM »
Re new pushrods, couldn't you do that old trick of repurposing rods from another engine? Shorten and refix ends as required?
At least you'd know that the material was good for the purpose.

It's a possibility to look into.
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rex on April 08, 2026, 06:46:09 PM »
Re new pushrods, couldn't you do that old trick of repurposing rods from another engine? Shorten and refix ends as required?
At least you'd know that the material was good for the purpose.
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rockburner on April 08, 2026, 09:49:01 AM »
Had a nice video call with the Guru yesterday, and learnt a few more useful things. 

Like: when checking the backlash it's best to do this with the timing chest cover fitted and nipped up! 
So - I did that, and:



I'd say that's as close to 1 degree as you're going to get! :D

The backlash between the timing pinion and camshaft is fine!  We had a conversation about the various options for the timing pinion - they were made with allowances for the backlash (-6, standard, +6, +12, etc, he's seen a -20!) and mine is a -6.  He initially recommended going up to a "standard" if I could find one, but after rechecking (properly!), it's all good, which is a bit of a relief because these things are just not made any more! If I was to find a 2nd hand one, I'd have no idea how worn it might be (which is the same issue with pretty much all the parts for these engines).

I'm also going to make sure that when I'm doing the valve-timing from now on I'm going to have the timing chest cover fitted and nipped up to ensure things don't have too much play: it makes more of a difference than I realised!


Obviously the guru does this so often, he actually has a cut-down cover with the timing pinion exposed so he can adjust it without removing the cover! Very handy, but massively overkill for me, once I've done this and got it as best I can, it won't be getting changed again.  The ignition timing on the other hand.... ;)

The guru reminded me of something else: the "critical" valve timing to get right is the Inlet Opening position.  Get that right and everything else will follow : the cams and cam-shaft and gear are all one solid piece, so if it's right in one place, it can't be "wrong" anywhere else, so I'll work off that principle.

We also discussed the bent push-rods, it's just something that happens - they're tubes, not solid.  I need to find some replacements, and we discussed sources. 
This is the worst one: Dial at 0

Dial showing the runout:


FYI: that's the crappy dial, I've discovered that the needle is a little loose and will wander over time. ffs.  It's ok for one-off measurements though.

The other rod isn't as bad, but best to replace the pair while I'm here:




He told me that apparantly one of the main suppliers tried to sell ally push-rod tubes a while back, which wasn't a good idea as they all bent!  The people who'd bought them were (understandably) pretty pissed off and complained bitterly, but he doesn't know if the company still sells them, or what they're made of: I shall investigate!

The current preferred material for race engines, running full power, is chro-moly tubing, but he reckons that I will be fine with regular steel tubing: I need to take the ends off my current rods (the ends are soldered on), and check the wall thickness, then go find some steel tubing of similar (or thicker) wall and see about making some up; well; presuming I can't find some ready made replacements somewhere else.

hey ho... do a job, make a job (as my ex used to say...)


Oh yeah - I also discovered last night that the classic bike track-day that I was sort of attempting to have the bike ready for has been moved to June or July, from May: so that "deadline" is no longer looming as heavily, phew.  What with the discovery of the fork and gearbox leaks I was thinking it wasn't going to be ready, now I still have a vague chance if I still want to aim for it.
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rockburner on April 07, 2026, 10:45:22 AM »
Those different tappet settings  when doing the valve timing is a Velocette foible too.
I assume (though I've never given it much thought) that it stops the valve spring operation from affecting the valve timing measurements.
Incidentally, when I was fannying around with the valve timing on my Venom (the timing marks were wrong- another long story) someone more experienced than me said to set the valve timing up just rocking at TDC on the exhaust stroke as a good start, and he was right. It was as near as..
Clearly not satisfactory on a Honda, but for something designed in the 1930s it was OK.

Yes - I'd imagine that closing up the tappets would reset the timing to be a tad earlier (a degree or two), and the opening period a tad longer than when measured with the more open clearances... very interesting.

So - that described timing method is essentially setting the exhaust open time exactly right... and trusting that the rest are inline?  Makes sense if you've got a single, one-piece cam shaft where the entire thing is ground from a solid blank: if the first movement is correct, then it's a reasonable assumption that the rest of the timing is right because it can't be wrong (with a solid cam-shaft & cams).  If the engine has multiple cams, or the cams are individual parts slotted onto the cam-shaft:  then there's the opportunity for non-synchronisation.
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rex on April 06, 2026, 09:58:57 AM »
Those different tappet settings  when doing the valve timing is a Velocette foible too.
I assume (though I've never given it much thought) that it stops the valve spring operation from affecting the valve timing measurements.
Incidentally, when I was fannying around with the valve timing on my Venom (the timing marks were wrong- another long story) someone more experienced than me said to set the valve timing up just rocking at TDC on the exhaust stroke as a good start, and he was right. It was as near as..
Clearly not satisfactory on a Honda, but for something designed in the 1930s it was OK.
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rockburner on April 05, 2026, 10:49:49 PM »
Aaaand I got into the workshop today as well! :D

I spent some time reading Fenner, Pitman, Irving and Greenwood... and while they don't disagree with each other completely.... there are some differences. :roll:

But - we'll get to that.

Back in the workshop I double checked the current setup:

This note tells me how the timing pinion on the crank-shaft was fitted prior to dismantling:


And that's how I fitted it:


The books had said that one trick was to fit the mag-platform/timing chest cover to check the backlash and to ensure that the gears weren't jumping about.

So I fitted the studs: using the double-nut trick to get the studs themselves nice and tight:


Timing chest cover in place (but not pushed fully home)
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This is what I was getting as backlash with both valves open.




2 degrees of backlash.  1 degree is what is mentioned in the books, so that's something to talk to the guru about... along with other things, but I'm not distubing him on Easter weekend!



I carried on regardless - it's all good practise.
You can't really see it here.... but the push rods are ever so slightly not straight.... which means they should be replaced.



I played with the timing wheel and piston tell-tale until I got the 0 degree mark right at TDC. 


The tappet clearance, according to one of the books should be 0.003" and 0.004", then reset to 0.002" once the timing is done: which seems a tad odd... but this comes from the Greenwood book - which is based, from my understanding, on racing experience.






Set both sides easily enough.

This is the timing numbers from the 4 books I've got....


I wanted to check the valve openings with the dial guages, so I dug out the ally bracketing I had found a few months ago and made a start on making up the 2 small brackets I needed.








Bit of heat to make the bend easier


Along with an assist from my number one, all time, favourite tool. :D


The holes for the small end are 1/4", and I ended up doing the other end 1/4" as well - turns out the dial guage lugs were exactly that size. :)


Guages fitted and aligned.



I lost count of how many times I spun this thing.
I marked the "correct" timings on the wheel in black, and the timings that I had, which were surprisingly close for a first go, in red. But I can't quite make sense of the offsets: I had expected that if they were "early" at one point, they'd be early all round.... but they're not... not quite... I am wondering if I've got a "sporty" cam here... but will be talking to the guru about it first.



One other thing I have seen a photo of, is a little handle on the timing wheel to make it easier to rotate, so I figured that might be worth adding.


I used an M5 bolt and a cork...  :D  It may get improve upon in the future!


So - I need to talk to the guru next week, and buy new push-rods, along with the ends (which come separate), a new oil-union for the rocker box, some new oil-nut fittings, a spanner to fit the buggers (if I can find the right one),

I have another job coming in which necessitated moving a few things about in the workshop... and while doing so I discovered that the right side fork is weeping oil... and there was oil under the gearbox, which I think "might" have been coming from the kickstart shaft.  Goldarn it! GAH! :(
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