help needed please to identify my grandparents bikes c 1920s

[billybunter]

hello members

can you please help me identify these bikes make and possible
year of manufacture

pic 1 & 2

pic 3 is similar to the bike in the 1st two photos

pic 4 is not great but seems a bit later

many thanks

[cardan]

Nice photos - and I think you have them in the correct order.

Photos 1&2 show a bike with a 269cc Villiers and direct belt drive - no clutch, no gears, so definitely in the "cheap and cheerful" category. We have a two stroke expert in our midst, so I expect he'll be able to suggest make and model. I'd suggest there is a lot of "Sun" about the bike, but as well as making their own "Sun" motorcycles, they also supplied hundreds of small makers. It could be as early as 1914-15, but likely early post war.

Photo 3 is still 269 Villiers powered, but at least now there is a clutch and gearbox. The wedge tank and double front down tubes are good identifying features, but don't ring any bells with me. Early 1920s.

Photo 4 is getting more serious. It seems to be a Triumph, and from the buldging case at the clutch it is one of the "spring drive" - either the OHV Ricardo or more likely the side valve "SD", both 500cc four strokes. Mid 1920s.

Leon

[33d6]

You grandfather was obviously a man of taste and discernment owning not one but two Villiers powered beasties. Much smoother and nicer than those coarse 4-stroke thingies.
Unfortunately identifying early Villiers powered machinery is very difficult as so many makes used them.
I have in front of me the 1920 Olympia Motorcycle Show catalogue opened at a full page Villiers ad. In it Villiers proudly announce "Fitted to Ixion, Sparkbrook, Hobart, Diamond, Victoria, Challenge, Bowns, New Ryder, Invicta, Coventry Eagle, Chater Lea, Wolf, P.V. Revere, Excelsior, Campion, O.K. Two-Stroke, Lloyds, etc, etc." So you see identifying an early 20's Villiers powered bike is not simple. I suspect the bike in photo 2 could be a Hobart but I'm far from positive.
Cheers,

[yebbut]

the two stroke has a look of Royal Enfield to me next thought was Levis.

BC registration is no later than 1924 though.

[33d6]

Not Royal Enfield, not Levis. The Royal Enfield had its flywheel on the opposite side and the Levis had a neatly bifurcated down tube through which the exhaust pipe passed.
Would happily have either of them in my garage though.
Cheers,

[billybunter]

thanks for the replies