Grigg motorbike.

[murdo]

Upon reading through the June issue (yes we are a bit behind here in Aus) of The Classic Motor Cycle, I came across a small article top of page 10 about a Grigg motorbike with a 1000cc B&H v twin engine. The Grigg I have heard of before, but who made the B&H (Bacher and Hellow) engine? Can anybody enlighten me please.
Sheldons Emu has this; http://cybermotorcycle.com/euro/wikig/Grigg.html

[cardan]

B&S, yes Grigg used them, but I've not heard of B&H. Can you scan the photo for us?

Leon

[JFerg]

Leon,

I doubt that Grigg used B&S engines.  There's no sales record to Grigg.

JFerg.

[murdo]

As requested.

[cardan]

Thanks Murdo - I've never seen a B&H motor before! Looks interesting, but you'd have to be confident to set up in the face of the other more established manufacturers.

John you may be right. At the 1922 Show, Grigg offered a range of machines for 1923. No mention of B&H, but they did offer to fit B&S if requested. If your records are complete, then it's likely no one asked!

The Grigg B&H would be a good bike for the weirdo motorcycle historian - an interesting design from a not-well-known maker fitted with an unheard-of engine! Now if I lived in the UK...

Cheers

Leon

[cardan]

Last evening I had a browse in my paper magazines. Grigg certainly used a range of motors. In addition to the 348cc Villiers two-stroke and the weird 181cc aluminium-cylinder four-stroke (no idea what this is) in the article above, I found mention of a Grigg Blackburne (single) and also a 998cc V-twin with a 3-speed Sturmey Archer gearbox described as a 1924 model. Unfortunately the v-twin was in the small adverts and there was no mention of the make of motor. I suppose it could be the mysterious B&H.

I found no mention of the B&H engine, but clearly Grigg were keen to please and could have fitted one or more bikes with this make of motor.

JFerg: I was thinking about Grigg offering to fit a B&S motor. Would they have done this if they had not tried out the B&S in their bike? I don't think so. The Grigg works must have had at least one, so I wonder where they got it from?

Cheers

Leon

[JFerg]

Leon,
Just because I don't have a sales record for Grigg doesn't mean they didn't at least try engines.  My record is not 100% complete.  It's pretty good, but there are a few holes.  Also, Grigg may have obtained an engine from an intermediary.  DeLuxe/Motorities bought quite a few engines, and they'd sell anything at all to anyone who'd buy it.   Recently I've tracked three engines in the USA.  Reputedly these were purchased by Indian for trial, but they were all sold through Wallace Engineering, a Glasgow firm who built agricultural equipment and did not build motorcycles.  All things are possible.

JFerg

[chris mac]

From my understanding this is the only Grigg with a  B H engine, i'm aware of only one other V twin Grigg , here in California, which has  a 750 Blackburne
John Kidd is very knowledgeable on these bikes

[cardan]

I'd love to see a photo of the Grigg-Blackburne Chris, as I have an Australian-made Victor Blackburne myself. Mine is about 1920-21, with an 8-hp (1000cc) side valve twin. The motor has the largest outside flywheel known to man.

Aside from being the only Grigg-B&H, I wonder if it's the only surviving B&H twin?

JFerg: I wonder whether you could try to track down a Grigg frame, of the type used for the 350cc Villiers, with a view to fitting one of your B&S motors? Presumably the VMCC has a Grigg Marque Specialist.

Cheers

Leon

[JFerg]

Leon,

My second 500cc B&S engine is currently destined to a home in New Imperial cycle parts, to become "New Onward".

JFerg

[R]

With Brexit, maybe it could be "Ever Imperial" ?

[chris mac]

Leon,  Here you go
Best,  Chris Mac

[cardan]

Wow, that's quite a machine. Thanks Chris.

My Australian-made Victor Blackburne is a couple of years earlier, and has a more conservative frame, but is otherwise similar. I had a friend with vintage Moto Guzzi who claimed his flywheel was bigger than mine - when I pulled mine out he conceded defeat immediately. The crank assembly inside the crankcase is quite light - just the crank and counterweights - so the outside flywheel did it all.

I like the Griggs with the V-twin motors, but before this thread I had never seen one.

Cheers

Leon

[R]

If that B&H engine is patented, it should be possible to track down the patent.
Especially if the patent number is available.

ClassicBikersClub has this.

http://www.classicbikersclub.com/news/all/Features/cbc-reference?p=3

The Grigg side-valve V-twin - August 1923

The August 16, 1923 issue of The Motor Cycle announced that the Grigg Motor & Engineering Company in Winchester Road, Twickenham would be marketing a range of single-cylinder and V-twin engines under the patents of Messrs Bacher and Hellow, who were responsible for B and H engines...

Seems you have to be a member to read more.

[murdo]

Here is a bit more on Grigg (bit of a read).
http://www.icenicam.ukfsn.org/articles5/art0081.html