Auction House Blues

[yebbut]

"True enthusiast"

is the most overworked and abused words to be found in around under old motorcycles.
Always has been,


older ones here will remember the ads that used to run in the weeklies

  "real enthusiast seeks old bikes any condition," = number plate dealer
or

  "impecunious enthusiast seeks Brough, cammy Velo, Inter, Vincent to love and cherish"

thats a back door dealer

[Bomber]

The trade in stolen disassembled bike parts is already a booming industry, can you imagine why? because we (motorcyclists in general) are prepared to buy them. As you say the higher the bike prices, the greater the risk of theft, but be under no illusion, there are scrotes already out there that would take the pennies off a dead mans eyes!

[wetdog]

"As you say the higher the bike prices, the greater the risk of theft", what a load of sh*t , why is classic insurance so cheap , that sort of comment explains why so few are seen used

[Bomber]

why is classic insurance so cheap ... because so few are taken outdoors and because they are never left alone unlike modern bikes. It does not emphasize the safeness of classic bikes as a risk, but tells a tale of woes about modern bikes and riders.

[R]

It's that old Law of Supply and Demand in action....they ain't making those classics any more...

Well, actually, when you look around, Manx Nortons, G50 Matchies, KTT Velos and BSA GoldStars are all available new, from a number of sources.
JAP engined Broughs and Vincents have enough spares available to build new ones ?  4 Cylinder Indians and Hendersons spares are sufficient to (almost ?) make all new ones. Various year Indians spares are available new, enough to build new ones. Bike magazines a while back built several models of BMWs new from spares.
A number of new MV's and japanese 4 cylinder racers have been built, using available parts, modified parts and new parts.
A batch of 1890s' Hildebrand & Wolfmullers were built from nothing.
A supply of HD 1910 models has appeared on the market recently.

And a museum of historic bikes near Brum were recreated from near nothing after a blaze removed many of them from history. Including making a replica of the replica that Rem Fowler rode to win the twin cylinder class of the first TT.
etc etc etc.

So you'd almost have to conclude they ARE making more of them ??

[Rex]

I wouldn't conclude that at all.

The wealthy may be able to commision a new MV or Goldie, but for the average Joe it's no more than a pipe dream; fifty years ago it was possible for that average Joe to own a Vinnie, Goldie or Bonnie mainly because they weren't particularly sought-after/expensive.
The two scenarios really are worlds apart.....

[R]

We are looking at the somewhat expensive end of the market here.
Still plenty of less exotics around, at less exotic prices.

While we are here, in the 1950s, a new Manx Norton cost about more than a (basic) house did in London.
How many years salary would that equate to then ? 
And were extremely restricted in supply - if you didn't look like you could win a race or 2, you didn't get one.

Compare that to now ?
How many manxes to  a house value ??

[johnnyboy-wonder57]

Rex,
Look up, what happened to BSA- Regal when they tried to go ahead and manufacture NEW Classic machines within the Euro-zone.  Race replicas and rebuilt old stuff probably comes under different rules of engagement, I was thinking of a classic being re-manufactured in the UK without fuel injection and of a price that is realistic to potential buyers!
Last week I saw holiday makers trailering a Vincent 1000, would you feel comfortable having a Classic motorcycle of that value behind your car or van, £25-£40,000 ?  I know I wouldn't any more, increased values have got to mean increased risks and as things get more rough in an economic down-turn, unscrupulous people will look towards  all types of venues for monetary gain.
Insurance may be cheap now, but is this not linked to usage, Classic bikes are getting increasingly to many, too precious to use!  So therefore they are increasingly low risk.  Maybe Classic Insurers, are not Rip-off merchants to begin with.

As far as True enthusiast is concerned, its someone in my view who sees the machine for what it, is rather than a pot of money, if the term has been hijacked by Shisters I suppose its no surprise!

Finally, it was only a personal view and I suppose I was playing Devil's advocate, increasing I am alarmed on Forums how quickly people get heated and often get personal, we are all bike enthusiasts right. I may be right, but then again I may be wrong, not often I hasten to add, JUST JOKING HERE GUYS; just some ideas bouncing around in my head that's all!

So safe riding and good luck with restoring.


Cheers

 JBW


 

[R]

There has been substantial chat elsewhere about the New Nortons struggling to make ends meet, with small scale production.

The problem is, folks these days seem to go for all the bling and hype - if its not there, they don't buy. So selling a basic bike (which probably won't meet emissions standards ?) is only going to work in 3rd world countries - where they already buy them by the gazillions. That means they have to be tough and long-lived, not easy to do with a new design.

What is it they say - how do you make a small fortune out of making motorcycles ?
A. Invest a large fortune in them.

All good fun, could conjecture and dream for ever.
As motorcyclists have been doing forever...

[johnnyboy-wonder57]

R,
I am not strictly talking about a basic bike, some thing a little different perhaps, I was thinking more on a biking version of an original 4x4, low-tech in a sensible way, fully- adjustable controls, solid & reliable, power-output where it matters, availability of spares & products which would enable owners to change its purpose with ease from say almost Paris-Dakar to Autobahn stormer,the focus on what motorcycles are I feel needs to change, will change, roads are rougher ... the endless diet of race-replicas is becoming so mundane,   will say more but busy day ahead!

Camshaft options gearbox options, like what was available for the BSA GOLD STAR, maybe even a modern version of a semi- pre-unit set-up to make all these things easier!

Cheers


JBW

[Rex]

[hnnyboy-wonder link=topic=3875.msg13502#msg13502 date=1312631212]
Rex,
Look up, what happened to BSA- Regal when they tried to go ahead and manufacture NEW Classic machines within the Euro-zone. 

Don't need to look it up as I remember that piece of Yamaha-engined shite. Nothing to do with any Euro-zone malarkey, but plenty to do with an over-priced unattractive bike playing unsuccessfully  on an old name.

Still, it's good that these old companies keep going....I mean, who would ever have thought that the "World's Biggest Mototcycle Manufacturer" would end up toshing up houes in the back streets (and there's a lot of them!) of Southampton?

[johnnyboy-wonder57]

Rex,
You on some medication  or illegal substances? I can't do an answer to you comments effectively, 'cos you seem to have gone off on some "Jack the Ripper

[johnnyboy-wonder57]

bugger, ....anyhow....Jack the Ripper type fantasy illusion-trip!
To manufacture effectively in the EU is almost impossible, its too bureaucratic, the pollution targets are effectively near impossible to meet & unrealistic to boot, material costs are high and the skills & industrial basis we had in the UK has either been auctioned off, made unemployed, come to retirement or well past retirement age , plus everyone & their dog wants fees &  some kind of cut out of the process before  you have even made any money @ all! 

Hence the inflated price tag on products made within the UK.  Yesterday, I was informed that the new Triumphs were almost effectively, made in Taiwan, got to check this fact out though!  However, I will try & find an email from BSA-Regal explaining production difficulties within the EU, were you talking about the twin or the single or both?

On top of this the UK Government is legally bound to meet decreased carbon emissions and the only way to do this is decrease human activity & to adopt flawed technologies, which I would be surprised if, any of them have an ounce of practicality amongst them.
Cheers

JBW

[Rex]

Dunno what Jack the Ripper has to do with anything, but here's BSA's current resume and address.
http://www.bsa-regal.co.uk/.

Do your house painting and a rewire....and FA to do with the EU...

[johnnyboy-wonder57]

Sorry Rex,
"World's Biggest Mototcycle Manufacturer" would end up toshing up houes in the back streets (and there's a lot of them!) of Southampton?
You meant houses, doing up houses,  I thought you meant touching up whores, in slang or something,  I hadn't got my glasses on, sorry Rex my mistake, I watched Get Carter last night  & had a stressful day repairing my rover car..My apologies I just going to take my medication!


Cheers

JBconfused