Author Topic: Watney m/c  (Read 5848 times)

Offline 33d6

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2016, 06:24:26 AM »
Sold at the VMCC shop. I'm sure if they sell them they are available elsewhere as well.

I would strongly suggest you don't cut the old rim off the hub. Your rebuilder, who ever it is, will need to know where the rim is positioned in relation to the hub. Is it offset. and by how much. The rebuilders job is much easier if they get a complete wheel and not just a bare hub. It is also probably a good thing to rebuild the axle and wheel bearings first. A nice straight axle and good bearings so the wheel can properly spin makes a nice foundation for an accurate wheel.

Cheers,

   

Offline mattsccm

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2016, 08:03:37 AM »
Thanks.
My *"+&%#@y father is doing the parts hunting and he assured me that the VMCC , which he joined, didn't have any!  Can't find anyone else. Adverts don't appear to tell the whole story. Time to do my own shopping!

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2016, 07:43:06 PM »
Hi,
What type BE rims are you after? the VMCC ones are Westwood type
If you need other types contact Brickwood wheels or Richard bros

http://www.richards-bros.com/   

Richards Bros
Unit 6 Hedel Road
Canton
Cardiff CF11 8DJ
Wales U.K.
Email sales@richards-bros.com
Tel:  +44 (0) 2920 229945
Fax +44 (0) 2920 220717


Brickwood Wheel Builders
Old Brickwood Farm
West Grimstead
Salisbury
Wiltshire
SP5 3RN
Contact:       Mr. Benn
Telephone:       01722 712701


John

Offline mattsccm

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2016, 09:09:41 PM »
Ta. No idea what type. Will look at pictures.

Offline cardan

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2016, 09:30:17 PM »

The front wheel in the photo above is the "Westwood" pattern. The Westwood rim has a dropped centre, compare with others that can have either a flat or slightly rounded profile.

The rim you are looking for is a "xx spoke (count the holes in the hub - I assume 36) beaded edge Westwood rim to suit a 26 x 2 1/2" tyre". The over-all diameter of such a rim is about 22 1/4 - 22 1/2" (check against the front rim if you still have it). Under no circumstances accept a rim that is 21" diameter: despite the argument that 26 - (2 x 2 1/2) = 21" ALL modern BE tyres are made to fit a 22" rim.

The historical background to this is that early tyres were 26x2 and fitted on a 22" rim. 26 x 2 1/4" tyres came along as a oversize and fitted on the same diameter rim, and later ditto for 26 x 2 1/2" tyres. Original Dunlop tyres were labelled "26 x 2 1/2 x 2 1/4" or sometimes "26 x 2 1/2" suit 2 1/4" rim", but tyres now are just labelled 26 x 2 1/2. In the era there WERE genuine 26 x 2 1/2" tyres that fitted on 21" rims, but these are no longer available. Modern 26 x 2 1/2" tyres are a very sloppy fit on a 21" rim - dangerously so - and should be used at your own peril.

Cheers

Leon

Offline mattsccm

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2016, 08:58:03 PM »
Yeah, tis Westwood. Sadly no rim there so its time to get the hub in the frame to eye things up. Have got 25 spokes to help matters a bit. Ta for tip about rim size. Got a Dunlop tyre that came to us in the waxed paper wrapping as in the pic so need one plus rim and tubes plus spokes.
Its getting there slowly.

Offline cardan

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2016, 01:31:23 AM »

It's 95% likely that the rear rim will be built on the centre line of the rear hub, but it's worth checking before you build the wheel.

I guess the spokes were 12g (0.104" diameter), less likely 11g, and with 10g perhaps a bit heavy for the job but probably OK. If the rear hub is unmolested you can check the spoke hole size. With the explosion of off-road bicycles and ebikes 12g spokes are now cheap and easy to get. Once you have a rim you can check the required length with a spoke length calculator http://earlymotor.com/leon/misc/html/spoke.htm

I use Michelin tubes: they do a heavy-duty in 2.50-21 which works well with 26 x 2 1/2 tyres.

Cheers

Leon

Offline mattsccm

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 07:29:33 AM »
Update/question.
Slowly doing bits. Rebuilding the rear wheel which is technically easy but it was in bits when we got it. Using old spokes to copy and get lengths but one sides worth are too long if built 3 cross. Not sure on the other side as I haven't got the dish right yet of course. 
Would 4 cross be likely on a 40 hole rim of this era?  The front is 36 and 3 cross.
Different spoking patterns for each side  seems unlikely although in cycles it not unknown.
Cheers

Offline cardan

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 08:02:15 AM »
The rule of thumb is that the number of crosses should be less than the number of spokes divided by 9. Thus 4-cross is ok for 40-spoke wheels, possible for 36, but unstable for 32 or anything less.

If the wheel is asymmetric - different flange sizes or different offsets - the lacing pattern is sometimes different on each side.

If you follow the link in the post above to my spoke length calculator, you'll find suggestions there for how to deal with asymmetric wheels. Make the appropriate measurements, plug the numbers into the calculator, and it will tell you the spoke lengths required.

Have fun.

Leon

Offline vintage_keith

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 07:36:19 PM »
Rim sizes were based on the beaded edge tyre size back then. There were quite a lot more tyre/rim sizes available than there are today.
(I've got a new, old stock Dunlop Clipper 26 x 2 3/8 in the shed), god knows what size the rim should be!
Basically you have 2 choices, 26 x 2 or 26 x 2 1/2. I would suggest 26 x 2 1/2 is most appropriate - I have an early 20s 250cc Triple H that runs 26 x 2 1/2 tyres and rims.
The 26 x 2 size is more appropriate for veteran machinery, as tyre sizes started smaller (descended from push bike sizes) and grew as time progressed.
26 x 2 1/2 beaded edge tyres have had a supply problem recently (Ensign brand), but I believe it may be past or at least coming to an end.
The belt rim will be more of a problem. There is currently nobody in the UK making replacement belt rims. I've been investigating with a chap in West Yorks who used to be a supplier, but quit when the quality of deep drawing steel sheet dropped off, he claimed that 5 out of 6 rims ended up as scrap!
Still trying to coerce him into making an odd one for me, but as practically every belt rim is different, they are very labour intensive for creating the formers to help generate the shape.
Good luck with the rebuild, hope to see it at Banbury one day!

Offline mattsccm

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2018, 07:48:37 AM »
Cheers
Going to try a 4x on one side and see if that helps. It doesn't take long to build a wheel. I have found this so much easier than cycle wheels. The rim is no more straight than cycle one, i.e. nearly but it seems to be less liable to do things you don't want when you nudge it over a touch in one place. At least the rim is meant to be central with the hub so no dish to mess with.

Offline vintage_keith

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Re: Watney m/c
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2018, 10:07:54 PM »
Sorry, everything in my post seems to have been said before by others!
Maybe I missed the 2nd page! Oops. :-[