Author Topic: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971  (Read 5176 times)

Offline Philbert

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I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« on: June 21, 2017, 03:40:34 PM »
In 1971 I bought an Ariel in London, and was told it was a 1949 Ariel 600cc single.
Since then, I have not found a photo of an Ariel in that year with a 567cc (?) engine, with the frame structure I remember, or the same engine "look".
I rode that 21 year old bike (I was 20 )to Amsterdam in the winter, then rode it to Spain through the rain and cold (mostly without a working headlight! LOL!), spent the Semana Santa festival in Malaga, then went over to Ceuta and on to Tangiers.
I sold that wonderful bike to an American, and continued my journey on foot, by train and horsecart...
To this day I remember the joy I had riding that strong and beautiful bike on that rough journey, and think of it a lot...I still love singles and old side-valve Harleys, have a deep affection for Nortons and Vincents and Hendersons, etc..
I would like to know just what the story is on this bike; was it a patched together Ariel, or a factory model?
There were 2 Collectors Club's stickers on it, one from the UK and one from the Nederlands.
It had a rear axle cylinder, like a pre-soft tail,  softening the ride with a small shock encased in the frame end; a separate gearbox, a spark arrestor, and a small "door" on the right side of the cylinder between the valve shafts.
And of course a sprung "bicycle seat" in front of a square passenger seat.
Did I mention the odometer had 89 miles on it? I looked like a new bike, coulda been the actual mileage...
I did get a photo a year later of it in Morocco being worked on by it's then owners, but I was in Israel at the time and had no way to track it down.
Does this erratic description ring any bells with an Ariel from 1949?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 03:44:44 PM by Philbert »

Offline mini-me

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2017, 04:43:33 PM »
Sounds like a sidevalve Ariel VB.

sounds like you are refering to plunger suspension, but I think 1949 too early for that.A later addition.
89 miles? recent replacement speed more like.

One here

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ariel+VB+1949&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR3oj0os_UAhXGKlAKHaC9A3YQ_AUIBigB&biw=1280&bih=868#imgrc=z6-aACb4OmZIMM:

with plungers
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ariel+VB+1949&newwindow=1&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR3oj0os_UAhXGKlAKHaC9A3YQ_AUIBigB&biw=1280&bih=868#imgrc=qh-1Ev4_hKNkkM:

I nevr owned a VB but liked the look of the engine in a later swinging arm frame..

Out of interest, can you remember, if you bought it from a dealer, who was it?

« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 04:45:43 PM by mini-me »

Offline Philbert

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2017, 07:53:54 PM »
No, it was 46 years ago and I had walked miles that day looking for a bike I could afford.
The bike shop was ecstatic to get rid of it...likewise I was thrilled to get such a cool bike.
I paid $175 for it...it was so clean and classy.
The VB seems to be the model, it looks real familiar...I remember the cylinder being taller, the bike less cluttered...but the plunger rear suspension was so different from the many older Euro bikes I saw at the time, that is the same suspension. And it rode so steady with just the right amount of noise.
 I met the caretaker of Dover Castle when I went there to catch the ferry to Zeebrugger (?); he loved the bike and checked it over a bit, showed me some loose nuts and such I tightened. It was such a fine looking bike, the Burgundy painted tank and the simple but elegant Ariel badge and clean all over.
I had a fine time starting it in the cold winter air; but it always fired up, and the spark arrestor was interesting.
I heard what happened if one did NOT retard the initial spark, so I was careful.

I rode it a long while every day, it addicted me to long bike journeys and big bikes.
Just as soon as I win a small Million Dollar lottery I intend to own another Ariel; as I am already a Harley fanatic it will be right at home.
Thank you for the help in locking down my fuzzy knowledge of my Ariel.

Offline mini-me

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2017, 08:17:45 PM »
What was $175 equal to in pounds in those days?

I hope not a lot or you were well done.

20-40 quid bought a decent-ish bike back then, or even a car, I paid 30 quid for a ford van in 1976 and went to Spain it 4 times.

£20 was a decent weeks wage for a working man.

Lots of americans over here buying bikes for european tours in the 70s, a lot to do with Vietnam affair.

Offline 33d6

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2017, 12:21:40 AM »
Good memories.
On my first trip to England I arrived on another of that same model VB Ariel. That plunger suspension was certainly available as an extra on any of the 1949 range out here in Oz and was first available in 1939. I suspect few VB owners took it up because most VB hauled sidecars. Ariel always promoted the VB as either a sidecar tug or long distance tourer and it certainly did both quite well.
Thanks for the enquiry Philbert. You enjoyed yours and I certainly enjoyed mine. If you had said yours was green with an oil pressure gauge in the tank you would have really got me excited.
Cheers,

Offline cardan

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2017, 12:25:54 AM »
That plunger suspension was certainly available as an extra on any of the 1949 range out here in Oz

Yep - according to the 1948 catalogue you could have it fitted to any model as an option. Not often seen on a VB.

Leon

Offline Philbert

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2017, 03:42:07 PM »
What was $175 equal to in pounds in those days?

I hope not a lot or you were well done.

20-40 quid bought a decent-ish bike back then, or even a car, I paid 30 quid for a ford van in 1976 and went to Spain it 4 times.

£20 was a decent weeks wage for a working man.

Lots of americans over here buying bikes for European tours in the 70s, a lot to do with Vietnam affair.

Actually, seeing as how a Honda Cub 50cc was around $400, and the Pound was 2.5 x the Dollar at that time, 70 Brit Pounds was OK by me.
According to stats I looked up, average wages (minimum) in 1964 was 30.70 Brit Pounds, so in 1971 it was higher or the same; NOT 20 a week.
I sold cars for nothing quite often, way below the standard price...can't go by one good deal as the standard.
An Ariel 600cc mint condition VB for half the cost of a Honda Cub was just an awesome deal, and turned out to be the greatest ride I had up until then.
Sorry your cynicism won't allow for the actual reality to intrude...I wasn't "well done" but darn lucky to have gotten such a perfect deal.
Can't see me riding in the tail end of the worst winter in 42 years on a Honda Cub all the way to Tangiers.
 

Offline mini-me

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2017, 04:36:53 PM »
Well as I was there, and working  £20 was about average, I bought my first  house in 1970 on the strength of  20pw and overtime.

Retro info onthe web is not reliable is it? 30 quid a week average wage in 1964,?????????  In the trade I worked in, a weeks wage for a time served man [5yrs]started at £12pw

£70 in 1971  would not have been exactly a rip off but on the high side I reckon, but depends who you bought it from, and if it was near mint reasonable if you were happy with it.

Quote
Sorry your cynicism won't allow for the actual reality to intrude
What cynicism? I asked a reasonable question,you answered it. I have no idea of the exchange rate back then. I do remember Uk was full of Americans  taking advantage of the  favourable exchange rate and then clearing off to Europe avoid the draft.
In1972 I was working for a SE London dealer and a full 75% of our new bike sales was to Americans, especially as we were only 60 miles from Dover. My wage then? £25pw

As for riding a Honda cub to Tangier? Its been done several times and further besides, look at some of the Honda Cub forums, they delight in such things,ok they are nuts and masochists but it works.

Was not the worst winter for 42 years either, not here 1947 was a killer for cold, and we had no fuel, coal or food to speak of, thanks to your then president.

Saddened you seem to have taken umbrage after starting off on such a pleasent note.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 05:02:43 PM by mini-me »

Offline Rex

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2017, 05:40:58 PM »
I started work as an apprentice in 1972, and thirty quid a week would have been termed a "feckin' good screw" back then and very far from average. I recall that people used to wonder at the £40 a week they paid GPs and ponder how they managed to spend it all...

1947 and 1963 were the harsh winters.

Offline mini-me

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2017, 06:36:57 PM »
and some of us were there for both, eh REx?

Offline Philbert

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2017, 08:23:35 PM »
Well as I was there, and working  £20 was about average, I bought my first  house in 1970 on the strength of  20pw and overtime.

Retro info onthe web is not reliable is it? 30 quid a week average wage in 1964,?????????  In the trade I worked in, a weeks wage for a time served man [5yrs]started at £12pw

£70 in 1971  would not have been exactly a rip off but on the high side I reckon, but depends who you bought it from, and if it was near mint reasonable if you were happy with it.

Quote
Sorry your cynicism won't allow for the actual reality to intrude
What cynicism? I asked a reasonable question,you answered it. I have no idea of the exchange rate back then. I do remember Uk was full of Americans  taking advantage of the  favourable exchange rate and then clearing off to Europe avoid the draft.
In1972 I was working for a SE London dealer and a full 75% of our new bike sales was to Americans, especially as we were only 60 miles from Dover. My wage then? £25pw

As for riding a Honda cub to Tangier? Its been done several times and further besides, look at some of the Honda Cub forums, they delight in such things,ok they are nuts and masochists but it works.

Was not the worst winter for 42 years either, not here 1947 was a killer for cold, and we had no fuel, coal or food to speak of, thanks to your then president.

Saddened you seem to have taken umbrage after starting off on such a pleasent note.
LOL...it would seem your then PM was the one responsible for the UK food, fuel, and coal...the US Pres pretty much dealt with the US. Sorry it was so bad for ya'll.

By 1971 the average National UK wage ( for men ) was £28 per week.
 Based on a 40 hour week and post decimalisation Bitter at 12.5p / pint
 One hour's work would buy 5.6 pints.

 https://books.google.com/books?id=CY2RRWDsNq4C&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=average+wage+per+week+London+1971&source=bl&ots=7eUqsVIqp-&sig=rk4DQroYweqxNTAipbEwUiZXIOw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikocPfjNLUAhUB04MKHWZNA0sQ6AEIPzAE#v=onepage&q=average%20wage%20per%20week%20London%201971&f=false


A loaf of bread cost 9p and the average weekly wage was around £32. Today, a loaf costs 53p and weekly wages are about £475. Property prices have also risen. In 1970, homebuyers could expect to pay £4,975 for a house.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiV9J2VjtLUAhUjzIMKHYmrA3EQFggvMAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fuk%2F2004%2Fmar%2F05%2Fhealth.drugsandalcohol&usg=AFQjCNHHcP1Qf1l2Qd6fKHRYZdtrzeQcFw


Actually, I just couldn't find anything online that had 20 as an average wage...I was also there, BTW...and several people in London and on my journey mentioned the "worst" winter in 42 years...not my weather forecast, other people's.
I can't imagine crawling through freezing rain, snow, and heavy lorry traffic on a Cub...or walking either.
All the traffic I saw on the highways were big bikes and cars among the lorrys...never saw a Cub or a Moped. Bultacos, Moto Guzzis, BMWs, BSAs, etc.
Inter-town traffic was nothing but tiny bikes, Cubs, Lambos, etc...I was on a solid Ariel and traveled at speed a few hundred per day, most days.
As I am not dumb, young, or prone to blurting out random facts, my memories are not solid fact but the Net bears out my info...sorry you worked for below standard wages but we all make choices.
I rode through Mexico on my FXR several times, and I have heard several times others make contradictory to my specific experiences statements.
They were undoubtedly wrong...or just never there.
I lived in Afghanistan in the early 70s...young ex-military types have said since then many things not too relevant  to history or fact, just what they remember. I pay little attention to supposition.
As an old guy, I put little faith in "memory" as a source, but the Net and many publications contain info that lives eternal.
I at least have specific info on my Ariel...happy am I.

 
Quote
I do remember Uk was full of Americans  taking advantage of the  favourable exchange rate and then clearing off to Europe avoid the draft.


There was no draft per se in '71...the lottery system eliminated the danger for most. (first one held in 1969 for 1970) 1970, 71, 72... except a few birthday years... so we all went on traveling jags. Thus ended the Anti-War movement.
I was so far in 2nd ranks of the lottery, then 3rd, I was not in any danger of call-up...I left my Navy ROTC college classes behind and went traveling. Nam was winding down and troops were being removed.
History shows how lame conscription was, and we all agreed.

Offline Rex

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2017, 09:12:16 PM »
and some of us were there for both, eh REx?

Infant school for 1963 and nowt but a twinkle for 1947... ;)

Offline mini-me

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Re: I want to ID my Ariel I rode in 1971
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2017, 10:17:42 PM »
I don't wish to turn this into a ruck but..........
Quote
By 1971 the average National UK wage ( for men ) was £28 per week.
cobblers, or most of us were underpaid.

Retro comparisions of pre and post decimalistion are not reliable because of the crafty inflation that happened after that con trick; at that event I was feeling safe and happy on my 25 quid and a bit; after, the value of my wage pummeted abnd from being able to cope with a mortgage/baby and so on I found myself deep in the brown stuff.

Quote
LOL...it would seem your then PM was the one responsible for the UK food, fuel, and coal...the US Pres pretty much dealt with the US. Sorry it was so bad for ya'll.

Actually it was your man that turned off the war aid and dumped us in the crap,everything had to be paid for in dollars, and we had to export anything we could to get them.
For the first time a lot of food such as bread went on ration, basic petrol ration was abolished for the private person, food,especially meats and fats rations were cut, electric power went on short time, gas pressure was reduced, coal ration reduced, we were getting food parcels from  Australia and NZ, and even from private folk in the USA to families here. No new clothes, all rationed , housing shortages due to war action, my old man was demobbed early because he was a bricklayer, so labour shortages as well, Rationing of some things in fact went on into the mid 50s so I for one am glad to hear you are 'sorry for how bad it was for us all'. It bloody well was, but of course you didn't get blitzed or V bombed did you?



I don't subscribe to the "its on the net so it must be true" idea, I get my info from proven reliable academic sources.

So let's not fall put over it?

As for  the draft thing, I'm not and never was au fait with the ins and outs of it, but I do remember hearing, while making use of the cubicle in a Zeebrugge lav, circa 1970,two young Americans discussing ways and means to avoid it; and I do not blame them either.

I live in a very army orientated bit of england, between garrison towns. We too get to hear first hand experiences from serving and ex soldiers.

In the mid 70s, after Franco died and Spain started to open up I had a regular  van run there supplying vintage and classic British bikes to a well known rich guy there; lots of BMWs mostly belonging to the wealthy or tourists, loads of spanish made small two strokes, Sanglas cop bikes,Werhmacht issue BMW outfits but no jap stuff because it was never imported there under Franco.  But thats not to say a Honda Cub would not have been up to the job, I wouldn't want to do it either but several have since. I even did it to Northern Spain on a 1938 500 and before that a 350 AJS.  The stupid way, over the Andorra road in snow,sod that.

The Spanish are dead keen on vintage bikes, but for my times there, 1970s 80s, untill the EU stuffed  my enterprise there, it was a rich mans past-time.

I never made it across the Med, and indeed did not, nor ever would want to set foot there, I do know every time I got back to Dover with an empty van, the customs gave me the 3rd degree, "are you sure you didn't go to Morocco?" I Never did the wacky baccky thing but it seemed it was assumed all visitors to Spain did.

Anyway you got good memories of the bike and trip, same as I do, so whats to fall out about?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 10:38:07 PM by mini-me »