Author Topic: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie  (Read 152 times)

Offline Kennij

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A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« on: November 14, 2017, 09:04:30 PM »
Hi All,
I apologise for these posts. I'm not a BSA man, so I'm in the dark just now.
The bike came fitted with an A65 f/hub, and as I said previously, a spindle which have I discovered on doing a bit of reading, is a 7" brake hub spindle. The B forks l/h thread screw in one.
I tried to take off the A65 brake plate and could not. Backed off the retaining nut and gave it a few bumps with a plastic mallet. Nothing. Heated the plate, WD40, and bumped again . Nothing moved. I could waggle the b/plate a bit on the sleeve.
Came in and looked at Draganfly's exploded views. Then I noticed these hubs were only used for 3 years, and that they have solid "retained in hub" spindles.
So, has this hub had a hollow sleeve to accept the old screw-in spindle made and fitted, to fit B model forks or is there a BSA fitted with what I describe. AND, how do I get the damned b/plate off without damage.
Regards,   Ken


Offline mini-me

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 09:59:06 PM »
Lots of mix an match possibilities with BSA.

If you have the nut off, then only the linings can be preventing it being removed.
Can you spin the plate freely? if not , try moving the brake lever which will release the grip of the linings.

Or possibly you could remove all the bearing retainers from the opposite side and knock the shaft through backwards.
Or of course it could be a right lash up and god knows what you have.

Too many bodgers have had these bikes through their hands over the years which is why 'as found'machines fetch a premium.

photos are a help everytime.

Offline Rex

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 09:26:16 AM »
I recently removed an early A7 front wheel (or tried to!) and the sod was much the same as you describe. The removable spindle would unscrew from the opposing fork leg, but not pull back out.
In the end I dropped the stanchions down and out of the yokes which left them both "independent" and the brake one lifted off with no problems. The wheel spindle was clearly partially seized in the central spacer portion of the hub, although a dead blow hammer eventually persuaded the whole assembly to come out c/w the near-side bearing.
Plusgas soon had the assembly back to it's component parts.

Offline Kennij

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 09:34:18 AM »
Hi    mini-me,
My first thought after first attempt. Shoes stopping removal, used to get that sometimes with car drums and the self-adjusters moving the shoes out into the undercut drum.
No, the shoes seem OK.  B/plate rotates OK. I'll have another go with the 2 leading shoe b/levers tiebar removed,  failing that, I'll make a bearing retainer tool and try something from the other side. Need to make one anyway for the 8" s/s  hub to install a bearing spacer to replace this one.
I was thinking last night, do I actually have a Triumph hub, not a BSA one.

Offline Kennij

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 09:54:02 AM »
Rex
Just read your post, no, perhaps I did'nt explain in sufficient detail.
I have the hub, cut out of the rim, on the bench. It has a hollow sleeve in the bearings which the spindle goes thro. I have taken the b/plate retaining nut off, very fine thread, very thin sleeve, and that is as far as I have got. B/plate will not lift off.
 Need it off to take out the sections of spokes left after cutting them. B/plate rim covers them.
As I said in the the initial post, what throws me is it's an A65 hub, or is it a Triumph, and in Dragonfly's exploded views of BSA, they were fitted 68-70 and with a solid, captive spindle, held in the forks by f/clamps. This one was in the forks via, I think, a 7" spindle going thro. the sleeve, and as you say, screwed into the fork leg.
Did Triumph fit that hub, but with a sleeve for the spindle to go thro.
Need to go and do battle again.
Ken.

Offline mini-me

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 11:39:16 AM »
not all those threaded spindles are the same,  C12 to A10  look similar so worth checking what bike it was from.

Offline Kennij

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 11:43:48 PM »
Hi All,
Well I've cracked the non-removal problem.
Had another look after tea, took off the brake arms just in case, took out a circlip on the other side of the hub. Then put a vise grip, a real US one, on the 10mm or so I could get at on the non-brake side with a fair grip. Put the grip in the vice to stop it turning, heated the b/plate again and poured some lt. oil around the sleeve.
Then I tried unscrewing it. After a couple of mis-starts it started to unscrew. Got if off, and after a bit of mucking about, spotted the problem. This sleeve is 50 thou wall thickness, OR actually 1.25 mm. Checked the thread pitch and dia. Its 1*20mm. The damned thing is metric. The 14mm nuts on the b/levers should have warned me, I just thought they were some mad size. Anyway, tube wall 1.25,  thread depth, a bit over .6, so wall in the threads area .7mm ish.
So when trying to take off the b/plate by hitting the tube nut with the mallet, it compressed and swaged the tube/sleeve in the b/plate because it was so thin. In my defense it was in this state before I started.
So,  I still don't know what the hub came off and I need a new tube/sleeve.  Or a solid spindle. It must be Triumph, maybe, perhaps.
Night all.

Offline Rex

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 08:42:19 AM »
If it really is metric it won't be Meriden Triumph.

Offline mini-me

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 09:52:09 AM »
won't be BSA either.

You do realise there are less much folk out there who know about old bikes than there are messing about with them?
I reckon10% to 90%

Offline iansoady

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 10:42:30 AM »
My bÍte noir. Along with those horrible "pre-insulated" crimp connections that some people are so fond of using.
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1962 Ariel Arrow
1982 Moto Guzzi V50

Offline Rex

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 11:01:32 AM »
Those little blue and red crimps always set the old alarm bells ringing, and, to follow on from Mini-me's comment, most people who use them on old bikes see nothing adverse  in using  them.
But then I've had long discussions (RC/IKBA/etc) with posters who use metric fasteners on old British bikes and see nothing wrong in that, either.
Funny old game..these old bikes.

Offline mini-me

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 11:07:38 AM »
over on sickba they'll tell you how metric spanners fit all sorts as well.

Just one other reason I won't log in there.

They use crimp ons because they cannot solder properly.

Offline TGR90B

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2017, 11:09:31 AM »
Depends what you want out of the finished product; I suppose. I know Ian's very fond of using M6 gutter bolts and square nuts. ;D
Getting grumpy.

Offline iansoady

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Re: A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 12:24:58 PM »
Somebody might take you seriously........
Ian
1952 Norton ES2
1962 Ariel Arrow
1982 Moto Guzzi V50