Motorcycle Discussions > Identify these bikes!

Does anyone know what bike this is?

(1/3) > >>

Barny:
I bought this recently, one of those spur of the moment purchases thinking it would be fun to register and ride but I am not sure if it is the Excelsior it claims to be. The engine is a 197cc villiers supersport TT, 1930 ish. The only markings I can find on the frame appear to read 197SS. It has Druid forks. The most distinctive feature of the frame is the double top tube. Any help at all identifying this bike would be greatly appreciated.

33d6:
You're right Barny. 1930-ish Excelsior it ain't. I have the 1930-ish Excelsior yours is meant to be and the only thing in common between the two bikes is they both have two wheels and an Excelsior tank transfer. Sun used that style of double top tube frame frame and also sold frame fittings to other manufacturers so it's not at all that unusual but forget 1930-ish Excelsior.
I think your frame number 197SS is a recent stamping with someone playing games. I'd have a good hunt around for the original number. You'll have fun trying to get it past DVLA as is.
Can you give the engine number? We can then identify it for you. Villiers made a 196cc Super Sport engine which has a different bore and stroke to their later 197cc engines and I can see your engine has an incomplete carb from a later 197cc 6E fitted plus it appears to have electrics from a 6E fitted also.
To my mind you have a complete bitza made by someone who had a fair idea of what they wanted but didn't quite know enough or have skill enough to do it properly. It won't take much to get it well sorted and then you will have a fun riding bike that you can steadily work on to get really schmicko.
Looking forward to more info.
Cheers,

33d6:
Whoops! Blew the bottom picture up a lot more to see it’s not a carb from a 6E but a later Villiers carb still. It’ll work fairly well but original even better.
Cheers,

Barny:
Thanks for that - it is all useful. The engine is 1E6528 an autolube of the right era, as you say the carb and electrics are later. On the advice of John Harding I stripped the engine before trying to start it. It has had the pressure and oil feed lines blanked, everything new throughout, crankcases and mains altered for petroil mix. It looks as though it has never been run which I find suspicious.  The frame has to be the starting point and at the moment I haven't a clue what it is. Like you I suspect it is not excelsior. Petrol tank is an original although not necessarily to the bike. All other tinware looks to be repro. The numbers on the frame are hard to distinguish - my interpretation probably wrong but they are original and stamped not cast. Sun seem to have used druid forks in the 20s but I cannot find anything to mach the frame. All very frustrating. Any advice on where to go from here much appreciated.

33d6:
Hi Barny,
You're not going to get far until you have an accurate frame number so start there. Getting it on the road legally and dating it accurately revolves around the frame number so that comes first. When you have the correct frame number the obvious place to go is the Vintage Motor Cycle Club. They have marque specialists who have a good knowledge of all the minute trivia necessary to tell you what you have. You must be a member of the VMCC to access these marque specialists. They cannot and will not give out the private details of their members to anyone who asks. You must be a fellow member. You can then approach the Sun marque specialist for advice. As I said earlier, my first impression says it is a Sun frame. Remember, in the end it is the date of the frame that dates the whole bike so it is the most important bit to get right.

I'm sure John H told you your engine is also a bitza  with a Super Sport top end on a 1E crankcase. The 1E was the cooking version of the Super Sport with fixed head and cast iron piston. Both the 1E and Super Sport more or less share the same bottom half so popping a Super Sport top end on a 1E is no big deal. It just leaves you with a glaringly wrong engine number when you say it's a Super Sport engine even though it has all the right parts. With that engine number you have an improved 1E, not a Super Sport.

Don't be downhearted, you have the foundations of a happy little fun bike. Accurate dating of the frame may place you just within the vintage period which expands the horizons a bit. Both the 1E and 196 Super Sport were introduced in 1929 and that Sturmey Archer FW gear box dates from 1925-30, so you may have yourself a nice little vintage bitsa and people will be happy to see it on the road.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page