Author Topic: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?  (Read 650 times)

Offline sarolea31

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Hello. I bought this frame at a fleamarket, but have no idea what it is for. (The price was right ;D)
Any tip would be appreciated.

From the internet and books, it seems the fork is used on several other British lightweights from the mid 30's.
It looks like it belongs to the frame, but i am not sure. Does someone maybe know the maker of this?

The frame might possibly fit a Villers unit engine?
I think at least the lower center mounting would fit, but with the front and rear mountigs missing, its hard to say.

The badly assembeled friction damper is marked as a B & D patent (Bentley & Draper, not Black & Decker, as i first thought).

I would guess the modern type central stand could be recognisable to someone?
The seat mounting-post could be a tell?
Also the "skid-plate" under the engine, but this could of course be an aftermarket accessory?

Four-digit frame-number could tell its from a small factory?

The wheel on the pictures is not for this bike.
The battery-shelf also seems a little out of place, but could be at least the correct age. it has had major repairs/modifications done.

Greetings from Norway.

Per.

Offline sarolea31

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Re: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2018, 09:19:36 AM »
The rest of the pictures.

Per.

Offline 33d6

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Re: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 01:04:09 AM »
It's a Montgomery. To be precise a 250 OHV Montgomery "Terrier"

I have a very poor photocopy of the 1936 Montgomery catalogue to hand. It's good enough for me to check off all the matching points between your remains and the catalogue but it gives a rubbish scan.  I'm sure someone will come up with a good picture.

The only puzzle is whether yours is a "Terrier" Standard as it has pressed steel forks or a De Luxe which has regular tubular girders but also that undershield. Did someone upgrade a Standard or replace the De Luxe forks?

Ehatever the story, it's a Montgomery.

Cheeers,

Offline R

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Re: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 08:53:24 AM »
P.S. We have had a Montgomery here before
http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=3068.0
Most aspects have carried forward to 1940
------------------


Online pics of Montgomeries are a little thin on the ground.
All I could quickly find was a bigger banger, a 350cc Deluxe, said to be 1934

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Montgomery_De_Luxe_350_KK_JAP_1934_links.jpg

You can however see that distinctive frame downtube setup under the seat,
definitely a match.  Well done that man...
Its interesting they offered those pressed steel forks as an economy model,
and tubular forks as a more expense option (as did other makers)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 09:06:58 AM by R »

Offline sarolea31

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Re: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 03:35:10 PM »
Thank you very much!!
I dont think i would have found out this by my self.
This seems to be a rather obscure little bike, very little to find online.
I found a just a couple of pictures of the same bike.

Knowing the name of the bike, i have asked our national registration archive for information, and  are awaiting an answer.

Does the framenumber tell anything? Is there any lists of numbers that includes Montgomery's?

I have not found much info about the factory or production-numbers either, i guess it was a rather small factory?

Maybe this could make the missing parts easier to get hold of, since they bought most of them?
Like wheels (British hub co??), gearbox (Albion?), Jap-engine, Dunlop drilastic(?) saddle....

Please let me know if any other parts are recognized as standard parts that could come from other bikes or makers?

I guess the hardest part will be the gastank, or could this also have been bought from another maker?

Anyway, thanks a lot for the info so far. It helped me a lot.

Greetings from Norway. Per.

Offline 33d6

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Re: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 10:36:05 AM »
I think you're right Per. It's mostly a bike built up of proprietary items. Most are a reasonable price. An Albion gearbox for example, won't break the bank. British Hub wheels are fairly easy to find.  The killer is the JAP engine. Even the cooking 250 ohv as used here is in high demand.  Nevertheless it is eminently do able and the joy of a Montgomery is that no one quite knows what is correct or not. From looking at the Montgomery in my shed its fairly obvious they were a small firm who used whatever was available. Some parts are very good, some are quite agricultural.

As far as the frame number is concerned the VMCC Register lists three Montgomery similar to yours. A 1936 model. frame number 92**. A 1937 with frame number 93** and 1939 with 95**. My entirely different 123cc Villiers powered 1939 model has a frame number starting 10***. I suspect Montgomery was so tiny they used the one set of numbers for all machines regardless of what model it was. Whatever they built that day got stamped with the next available number. The VMCC Marque specialist should be able to accurately date it for you.

Tanks aren't that expensive to have made. It's not the drama you may think. It's not as if it's a Brough or Vincent where every man and his dog will look at it and have an opinion. As long as it looks broadly like the catalogue picture, fits neatly and the handlebars don't hit it no one will know if it's slightly out here or there. If it looks right it is right.

Copies of catalogues are available from both BMS and the VMCC Library. Tank transfers are available.

It would be an attractive and smart little bike

Cheers,           

Offline john.k

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Re: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2018, 01:38:05 AM »
I d say you are lucky it does have pressed forks,tubular forks would have been sold on ebay ,and long gone....It seems a pretty simple resto to me,there are a lot of hard to find bits there......If you cant find a JAP at a sane price,they probably also used the little cheapie 250 Rudge motors that seem plentiful.

Offline Jonny The Goat

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Re: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 10:55:15 PM »
I have a Rudge rapid 250 engine down in my stock has a mag and good spark and looks to me ready to go, also have a gear box. Been keeping for a project, If of interest let me know or I would not mind the frame :)
       Cheers, Jon
             

Offline HubHacken

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Re: Unknown British (?) lightweight, mid 30's. can anyone help?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2018, 11:02:52 AM »
Thank you very much!!
I dont think i would have found out this by my self.
This seems to be a rather obscure little bike, very little to find online.
I found a just a couple of pictures of the same bike.

Knowing the name of the bike, i have asked our national registration archive for information, and  are awaiting an answer.

Does the framenumber tell anything? Is there any lists of numbers that includes Montgomery's?

I have not found much info about the factory or production-numbers either, i guess it was a rather small factory?

Maybe this could make the missing parts easier to get hold of, since they bought most of them?
Like wheels (British hub co??), gearbox (Albion?), Jap-engine, Dunlop drilastic(?) saddle....

Please let me know if any other parts are recognized as standard parts that could come from other bikes or makers?

I guess the hardest part will be the gastank, or could this also have been bought from another maker?

Anyway, thanks a lot for the info so far. It helped me a lot.

Greetings from Norway. Per.

It looks awesome.  :)