Simplex Villiers in Australia, 1936

[cardan]

In 1936, Turner Brothers in Melbourne advertised the Simplex Villiers in a range of sizes and models - see adverts attached. Burman gearbox, they say.

There seems to be no secret that the bikes were "just landed" from the UK, albeit "fitted with the latest improvements to suit Australian conditions". The usual story!

However I think I'm correct in saying "the famous English Simplex Villiers" was not marketed in the UK as a Simplex.

Any ideas who made it for Turner Bros?

Cheers

Leon

[R]

Well thats an advance on the info in Rob Sawards "Australian made motorcycles",
so the story is slowly gathering steam.
Can we find a picture of such a bike, very little seems to be online at present.

Turner Bros was one of the big outlets in Elizabeth St, for some decades, this pic
is about all that turns up - thanks to the Musem of Vic. circa 1948.
Would any of the Melbourne clubs possibly have any more details.?


David of Modaks could possibly know - and probably has parts for them !

[R]

Simplex in Amsterdam.
Could be totally unrelated, but it does have a Sturmey gearbox.


https://www.benvanhelden.nl/Condorclub/Nederlandse%20Motoren/Simplex/simplex3%20(2).JPG
https://www.benvanhelden.nl/Condorclub/Nederlandse%20Motoren/Simplex/simplex4.JPG
https://www.benvanhelden.nl/Condorclub/Nederlandse%20Motoren/Simplex/Simplex.html

1936 is quite late for a Sturmey gearbox, did someone have stocks of the lightweight ones ?

[33d6]

Two things.
The Amsterdam Simplex not only has an obsolete S/A box fitted it also has an obsolete Villiers engine fitted. Both date well before 1936. Both are quite easy to date from their respective id numbers if anyone has them.
I am also one of the few people to have actually seen an Australian Simplex but it was a long time ago. All I can remember is that it was a run of the mill lightweight of the day. Nothing stood out. Just a compilation of the usual proprietary parts. It looks like a visit to the State Library is required.

[33d6]

I have a little more information.

The State Police who ran vehicle registration for many years listed Simplex in their pre computer data book. They list them off and on as available from 1924 to 1939 all powered by the various Villiers engines available each year. No other engine make was used.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Simplex was a name registered by Turner Bros which could be applied to any oddment batch of lightweight bikes offered them by any of the small time manufacturers in the UK. Makers such as Montgomery, Diamond & Wolf for example. Buying up anonymous oddment batches here and there would slide around a lot of commercial requirements such as distributorships, official agencies and the like. It'd also be a good way for an English firm to get rid of last years stock remains to a market on the other side of the world.
 
I'll see what the State Library has to offer but it may be a while before I get in there.

Cheers,

[john.k]

Simplex was a common name for many machinery suppliers...such as Baltic -Simplex...............said to be originally a trade mark of Benz &co,who gave it up around 1905,as too many makers were using the name....such as Ariel Simplex......Secondly,...rare bikes from Holland......seems quite a large industry there "finding" unbelievably rare bikes in excellent condition......and selling them for megabucks........a gentleman with a large handlebar moustache comes to mind.

[Rex]

If you mean the pig farmer, then yes, be very wary, especially if buying sight-unseen. He's not averse to a little rattle-can silver or black to make his offerings look better in the pics, but that said, he does have some nice stuff even though most are adulterated with metric threads and fasteners.

[john.k]

The pic is interesting too......Milledge Bros,Cottman &Co,Turner Bros...............Ive never heard of Cottman &Co......the other two are well known enough.........What is the car in front of milledge?......strange sloped grille,maybe a Citroen?...the Ford sedan is ex army ,they all had balloon 9x13 tyres,

[R]

A diversion, but Finlay Bros just down the road - 322 Elizabeth St, circa 1941.
Same car ?

[cardan]

Well, what a blast of nostalgia from Elizabeth St, Melbourne, heart of the motorcycle district for many years.

R's first photo shows Cottman and Co at 291-293, the building in which Turner Bros were located in the 1930s. In mid 1940, Turner Bros moved next door to no 295, so this dates the photo to sometime after 1940.

Cottman and Co should be known worldwide for the famous Cottman Colt, their entry in the list of "Australian made" motorcycles. The 1930s Cottman Colt was probably a rebadged Royal Enfield two stroke, but exact details of business arrangements and the extent of knocked-down-ness of these "Australian" bikes of the 1930s is not well understood. Thus my original question about the Simplex Villiers.

Interestingly, I've changed my mind about the origin of some "Australian" bikes from the earlier period - say 1900 - 1925. We used to call lots of machines "rebadged", but I've been gathering evidence to show that lots of early bikes, while they might look just like their British or European cousins, were in fact made here from sets of parts. As a example, there are quite a number of machines in the veteran period that have been described in the past as "rebadged Arnos", but I now see that these were assembled in Australia using kits of Arno Parts. There is a restored veteran "Western Star" in the UK that may raise eyebrows: it looks just like a veteran Arno, but with Western Star painted on the tank. Most likely it was built in Australia, albeit using an engine and kit of lugs supplied by Arno.

Similarly, we had Australian-made Clement Garrards (Clement engine and Garrard (Norton) cycle parts, brought in as a kit from the UK), Australian made Thor clones (think Camel back Indian), Australian made NSUs, Australian made Moto Reves (to the pattern of the UK-made Moto Reve), Australian made Sun Villiers, etc. etc. Interesting, but not very exciting.

So the Cottman Colt may have been a "rebadged Royal Enfield", or it may have been built up from parts. From the sound of the Turner Bros adverts arrived in one piece, branded Simplex, from the UK, but there are other possibilities...

The Finlay Bros building in Elizabeth St was still there when I lived in Melbourne in the 70s and 80s, but I suppose it's gone now.

Cheers

Leon

[R]

Google streetview still shows quite a few motorcycle shops along Elizabeth St, so the motorcycle mecca aspect is not entirely gone.
Some of them have been replaced with big high-rises, so its surprising the financial side hasn't driven them out ?

I'm not entirely sure that Finlay building is at No '322', since the earlier Finlay Bros at 322 seems to be in the middle of the block (!),
but the building in the pic above still seems to be on the corner near 322, a bit transformed - and shortened on the side. ?

Yes, tarrifs on fully imported bikes (and cars) seems to have led to quite a strong local industry.
An EB tank here is numbered as 4907, which if the previous numbers all actually existed is quite a lot of tanks.
Turner Bros advertised widely, for a lot of brands, so it was a big industry back then.
Its surprising there is not more written about them ?
It is mentioned someplaces they were earlier in Swanston St.
Which is now high-rise...

[john.k]

There was plenty of frame building expertise in the bicycle industry.......and high tariffs to protect industry........tariffs could rise as high as 100%,if an industry was threatened by imports........then there was the empire preference of 1933,killed off US imports until after WW2...........this is why car bodies were all made here for cheaper cars.

[cardan]

The Finlay Bros building in Elizabeth St was still there when I lived in Melbourne in the 70s and 80s, but I suppose it's gone now.

Woops. Looking at streetview I realise I meant the Rhodes (not Finlay) building, which was (and still is) at no. 405, on the corner of Elizabeth and A'Beckett.

I'm not sure where the Finlay Bros building was/is.

There is heaps of info on Turner Bros - at least on the motorcycle side - but it is broken up into the history of Turner JAP, Carbine, EWB, Invincible JAP (and hence Firth Bros), Simplex and so on. In the early 1900s they were said to be the largest bicycle house in Australia.

It's one of the problems with trying to cover a broad topic like Australian-made motorcycles. We have 530+ different entries for the book, and many/most of them have a story worthy of detail.

Cheers

Leon

[Rex]

That old Finlay Bros pic shows a beautiful  Art Deco building. Be a shame if it's gone.

[john.k]

Any one familiar with the brand "Diecut".often seen on sprockets......I assume this is a local manufacturer,and have had two Albion  EJ type 3 speed lightweight gearboxes,without any marking ,but Diecut in tiny letters on the gears......One box was from a C-E with Villiers