Author Topic: Triumph x series  (Read 271 times)

Offline aasmith384

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Triumph x series
« on: November 10, 2020, 02:57:52 PM »
Hello everyone …. new to the forum and this is my first post, so here goes.

Is there anyone out there who has a Triumph X series bike, parts of one, info or manuals. More importantly info, exploded diagrams of a Villiers 12C twin port engine …….

Yes, you've guessed right, I have an XV/1, the only Triumph not recognised by the Triumph club.....but, it is extremely rare because no body wanted one …….

regards to all, Tony.  :)

Offline R

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2020, 09:50:14 PM »
What is it specifically you need to know about the engine ?  (pic chosen at random)
https://cdn.globalauctionplatform.com/d8a4a98f-8d7a-45ed-8f06-a9cf00a18896/b40ce2e3-7968-49ed-827b-a9f400f0513d/original.jpg

The Vintage Club would likely have a Marque Expert or person on Villiers engines,
and a fair collection of literature too. e.g.
http://users.actrix.co.nz/cornelius/Triumph/ModelX.htm

33d6 (corrected !)  here on this forum is au fait with most Villiers technicalities also ...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 03:13:23 AM by R »

Offline cardan

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2020, 09:56:51 PM »
Is the engine Villiers? I recall some time back our resident Villiers expert 33d6 suggested it was not?

Surely the Triumph Club must "recognise" the model, even if they know nothing about it!

Cheers

Leon

Offline 33d6

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2020, 07:55:30 AM »
Engine definitely Villiers. The Mk12C as shown. This is the bike where Triumph gave up deluding themselves they could make a two-stroke and fitted their remaining Model X’s with a Villiers engine. In previous years  Triumph wouldn’t even admit they made bikes with Villiers engines but sold them under the Gloria label.
It must be a relief to get a Triumph with a Villiers engine and have something reliable and with plentiful spares.
Just Google Villiers Services and go for it.
In these COVID times the owner Steve Gollings is urging people to ring if they can’t see what they want on the site so I expect you will need to phone.
A good general book containing most Mk12C necessary information is “The Villiers Engine” by B E Browning. Plenty of secondhand copies about.

Offline 33d6

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2020, 08:49:36 AM »
Whoops. I forgot to add Peter Cornelius. Triumph guru for up to 1941 models. You’ll have to Google him as well. He prints booklets on all models up to 1941 and he makes a point of mentioning the X/V I because it is so obscure.
Keep us informed won’t you.
Don’t get enough interesting bikes here.

Offline aasmith384

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2020, 01:45:59 PM »
hello again ….. many thanks to all those comments and suggestions....I hope to reply to you all individually as soon as...

I have contacted Peter Cornelius and even got his booklet 'Triumph Models X, Z, Gloria, XO, and XV/1 1930-1934' that offers information and data on all those models which is great because the frame, apart from a few minor details, and the running gear is all the same.

My problem is having engine details for when I do a re-build and not being familiar with Villiers, I need something.
The Villiers book I have isn't much help, I've contacted John Harding, he suggested the same book, and there is virtually nothing available on the 12C. I was hoping that someone might tell me that the basic's of the 12C are the same as another model like maybe the 15C which Triumph had hoped to use on the XV (hence the model number) in the first place.

Anyway, I will follow up all you suggestions in the hope I can find what I'm looking for...…

Thanks again ...Tony


Offline TGR90B

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2020, 03:57:05 PM »
Just do what we used to do in the 60s. Take it to bits, put it back together and see what's left over.
Getting grumpy, but not as grumpy as mini-me.

Offline iansoady

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2020, 04:15:53 PM »
I would just use data from similar Villiers engines as a starting point and work from there. They're pretty simple beasts after all. Villiers Services as mentioned earlier have an excellent knowledge and may be able to help source alternative parts.

Having said that, most of what I can see about the 12C suggests it's a mower or stationary engine (which of course it is at the moment!).

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/nacc/arc0596.htm
Ian
1952 Norton ES21955
Francis Barnett Cruiser 75

Offline Rex

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2020, 04:29:38 PM »

Offline aasmith384

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2020, 04:45:21 PM »
Thanks again everyone...…..

I think I'll do what TGR90B suggests …..and if it starts I'll sell the leftovers !!

Regards....

Offline 33d6

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2020, 10:40:28 PM »
The whole joy of Villiers is they share so many parts. Makes them very practical.
Don’t pull it apart, you will learn nothing and you will disturb joints and bearing surfaces that are well harmonised after years of running together.
You rebuild the electrics and the carburettor because owners will fiddle unnecessarily. It will then run quite well even if near worn out. This way you learn how to run an early two-stroke without having to learn the same lessons on a rebuilt engine.
There is always multiple copies of the Browning book for sale on www.abebooks.com . Buy one. It contains all the Info you are asking for.

The constant problem I have with owners new to early two-strokes is convincing them they are entering new territory where they know nothing. Regardless of how any bikes they’ve owned, years of riding, engines rebuilt, blah, blah,this is a different universe and things are different. They are back to the beginning.
Buy the book. Read it. Ask questions about it. Learn first then get the spanners out.
Keep us informed.

Offline aasmith384

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Re: Triumph x series
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2020, 12:42:47 PM »
Thanks 33d6...

seems like sound advice from someone who knows … and I'll take it !

many, many thanks.