Author Topic: Spanners and sockets  (Read 1588 times)

Offline Oggers

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Spanners and sockets
« on: January 17, 2021, 04:51:13 PM »
Chaps

I have always assumed that a Whitworth spanner and socket set are the default for most British bikes, but I read somewhere Velocettes are different - not sure where or why this should be the case.

Can you advise - as I may be about to buy one - a 54 MSS.

My thanks and regards

Mark
 

Offline mini-me

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2021, 05:37:25 PM »
probably an 'expert' confusing whitworth and BSF which are one and the same.

whitworth/BSF spanners are all you'll need, also a 2/3/4 ba for electrics.

probably your 'expert'  used a set of metric mole grips.

go ahead and enjoy your Velo, I believe many do..............


Offline Rex

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2021, 07:18:52 PM »
Nah, you've got that wrong. As every Net expert knows, every British bike used "Whitworth" threads and needs "Whitworth" spanners, except where the clever ones went to B&Q and bought a bag full of cheap metric screws (or "bolts" to those clever ones) and used them where possible.
The really clever ones have a toolbox full of an assortment of spanners etc for the three main threadform families and just reach in and find one that nearly fits. Saves all that hunting for the correct spanner (as those old fuddy-duddies call them)..apparently.

Offline mini-me

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2021, 08:10:53 PM »
I bet Rex is another one like me who can tell a spanner size by looking at the fastner?

All mine have a seperate box or rack for each  threadform.
but weirdly I still refer to 1/4 whit when I need a 5/16 BSF, so I bought a confused set of spanners marked to suit. ;)

still got some I bought when I was 16.

Offline DM

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2021, 08:33:02 PM »
still got some I bought when I was 16.

I still have some that my Dad bought when he was about that age.

Offline TGR90B

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2021, 08:12:26 AM »
The only spanner I remember my dad having was a small side opening adjustable; kept in the kitchen drawer. I may still have it.
Getting grumpy, but not as grumpy as mini-me.

Offline Rex

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2021, 09:52:00 AM »
I bet Rex is another one like me who can tell a spanner size by looking at the fastner?

Working with tools it's info that you absorb over time, although if you didn't I'm sure the foreman would have questioned your ability and further employment. Another clue as to "what spanner?" is the bolt head markings.
Much easier in the last twenty years where it's all pretty much  been metric though.

Offline cardan

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2021, 09:17:25 AM »

but weirdly I still refer to 1/4 whit when I need a 5/16 BSF, so I bought a confused set of spanners marked to suit. ;)


There's a story there. Pre-WW1, 1/4BSW bolts and nuts all had the hex size of a 1/4W spanner. Then someone realised that there was really no need for such a big hex, saving a lot of metal, so most post-WW1 British fasteners have a hex one size smaller. All 5/16" fasteners for the last 100-odd years (5/16W, 5/16BSF, 5/16BSCy) have a 1/4BSW hexagons.

Because the BSF and BSCy Standards were written long after the BSW Standard, they incorporated a smaller hex in the Standard. Thus the spanner labelled "1/4W / 5/16 BSF".

So if you buy a 1/4W bolt and nut these days it is NOT 1/4BSW. Some wankers like me collect REAL Whitworth nuts - large hex - to go on things like early Sturmey Archer gearbox studs (3/8 BSW), or all the small fasteners on my 1909 Lewis (1/4 BSW).

Leon


Offline Rex

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2021, 11:10:59 AM »
I always understood that it was material saving in WW2 that led to the reduced hex Whit sizes.

Offline cardan

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2021, 12:09:46 PM »
You could be right Rex, perhaps officially. On veteran bikes there were some large size hexagons, even with cycle threads, but mostly they were the smaller size. I'm not sure what year the BSF and BSCy STandards were first issued? There's usually not too many Whitworth fasteners on a motorcycle, but it's incredibly rare to come across a large size hex on anything post-veteran.

Leon

Offline Vreagh

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2021, 02:49:11 PM »
I worked for an old firm of engineers in the early 60s and had to be careful when getting nut and bolts from the stores. Some of the bins still had large hex mixed in with small. I also was told the change was due to material shortage during the war.

Offline Oggers

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2021, 03:54:23 PM »
Understood ref the hex heads, but what about the thread? What is generally used on a Velo - BSW,BSF or BSC? or all 3!

Offline mini-me

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2021, 06:01:38 PM »
all three depending on application etc
but the spanner sizes are all the same, which was your  original worry?


Offline Oggers

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2021, 07:51:40 PM »
I am allowed another question surely? I understood that in general, BSF was used on most stuff....

Offline mini-me

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Re: Spanners and sockets
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2021, 08:32:17 PM »
you are correct.