Electronic? ignition 5T Speed Twin. HELP!

[twolitre]

 ???I have bought a 5T (alternator) Triumph to refurbish. It has a largely disconnected jumble of non-standard wiring and a unit which resembles a small dynamo in place of the distributor.  Two coils are fitted with connections to another unidentified unit (condenser?)  What is it and how should it be wired?  Oh, coils and bulbs etc. are 12 volt and the coils' positive terminals seem to be wired directly to the battery positive (earth).

[L.A.B.]

It has a largely disconnected jumble of non-standard wiring and a unit which resembles a small dynamo in place of the distributor.  Two coils are fitted with connections to another unidentified unit (condenser?)  What is it and how should it be wired?

Sorry but that isn't really a lot of information to go on? Would there be any chance that you could post a photo of this system? Or email it to VintageBike if you have problems doing that?

The only one I can think of similar to what you have described is one of the Kirby Rowbotham conversion kits that uses the Boyer Bransden ignition system? http://www.kirbyrowbotham.com/ignitions.php?page=2

Is the "unidentified unit" a rectangular (black, red or blue?) plastic box?

 

[twolitre]

Thanks for your reply. The Kirby Rowbotham site does not appear to have anything similar, though the three hole mounting flange shown in Mk 3 is like the one on my 5T.  I have photo's and I will try to load them.  This is my first entry on this site and I have not sussed it out yet.  please be patient while I try.
Jim.

[L.A.B.]

The Kirby Rowbotham site does not appear to have anything similar, though the three hole mounting flange shown in Mk 3 is like the one on my 5T.

That three hole mounting type would be more likely to be a magneto replacement type though I think?

You mentioned that it was a "5T (alternator)" so I presumed it to be a 5TA, is it actually a pre-unit 5T? What year is it?


 

 I have photo's and I will try to load them.  This is my first entry on this site and I have not sussed it out yet.  please be patient while I try.

No problem there whatsoever.  

[twolitre]

The bike is a 5T pre-unit. Unregistered (been in Malaya). TOMCC dating cert. says it was exported in 1957, but I think eng/frame no. 08275 suggests a little earlier manufacture. Swinging arm/alternator model ( I have not checked if it still has an alternator!), but if the distributor replacement was a mag. it would not have twin (standard coil ignition type) coils would it?
  Struggling with my pics which are currently too high resolution for the system. Trying to reduce them.

[L.A.B.]

Swinging arm/alternator model ( I have not checked if it still has an alternator!), but if the distributor replacement was a mag. it would not have twin (standard coil ignition type) coils would it?

If it did have the points/coil distributor system (which can be replaced with a mag.?) then it should only have the one coil I think, and this coil would have been mounted on top of the distributor unit for 1957?

Are you certain that the "08275" number is correctly written as it doesn't seem to fit, seeming to be from much earlier?

[twolitre]

I have sent photos to CVM. Hope they are inserted.  The frame and engine numers are identical and exactly as I listed them.  I have no V5c as yet - it never has had one, so I have to accept them at face value.  There is absolutely no evidence that they have been tampered with.  The pics are two views of the distributor replacement and one of the other part which is uncoloured and in no way can be described as a 'box'.

[L.A.B.]

The frame and engine numers are identical and exactly as I listed them.  I have no V5c as yet - it never has had one, so I have to accept them at face value.  There is absolutely no evidence that they have been tampered with.

Sorry! My mistake,

I think that number would be correct for 1957 after all.

In fact it would appear to be a fairly late '57 production year number? (1957 5T numbers 01797-010253) so was probably manufactured early to mid '57 as 'production' years were not the same as calendar years.

[henry_norton]

The 5T had a distributor with a single coil 'piggy backed' onto it and an alternator on the drive side of the crankshaft. It's a bit confusing as the distributor  looks a bit like a mag and it's fitted in the old magneto position but your setup sounds correct so the chances are the rest of the equipment will be correct too. H_N

[henry_norton]

"sounds correct"?!!!! what was I saying? No 5Ts came with twin coils so I would presume these were a result of a 12 volt conversion. The T100 ran a mag until 1959 but that still ran a dynamo and yours sounds like neither. Could this "unit that looks like a small dynamo" be a distributor with the cap missing?H_N

[twolitre]

Sorry for the delay in responding.  My router overheats and sometimes needs a rest.
 I have had a 1955 5t before and I am quite familiar with the standard ignition set up. I was also a fully qualified motor engineer until age overcame me!  The distributor replacement in no way resembles an 18D2. There is no cap - HT leads are straight from coils to plugs and the body of the unit is almost 3" in diameter and overall is about the same size as a medium can of baked beans.  There are two low tension leads coming from it as far as I can see and these seem to go to the other unidentified unit.
 I have so far been unable to find any motorcyclist or mechanic who is familiar with it. I've certainly never met anything like it in 50 years in the motot trade.

[twolitre]

Henry (I hope that's OK). If it does not contravene the terms of this site, could you email me at jamesrambler@hotmail.co.uk so I can send photos direct?  If you include your phone number I could perhaps explain better directly.  I suppose here is no chance you live anywhere near Chesterfield?

[L.A.B.]

The T100 ran a mag until 1959 but that still ran a dynamo and yours sounds like neither.

The original setup for a 1957 5T Speed Twin would have been a (DKX2A?) distributor from 1953-on, and a single 6V (Q6) coil and RM14 (very early type was RM12) alternator was used from the 1953 (RM12) model year-on.

The twin 12V coils do certainly appear to be part of the electronic conversion, hopefully the photos may throw some light on what the "unidentified unit" is, unfortunately the description uncoloured and not a box doesn't give us much to go on, nevertheless there is a fair chance that the origin of the parts can be identified, and even if it can't be, then it shouldn't be that much trouble to figure the correct ignition wiring layout for it once we know exactly what we are dealing with?

[twolitre]

Unfortunately we are a bit hamstrung. The photos don't seem to have worked.  Describing the thing that is 'not a box' would be like trying to describe a pair of binoculars to someone who has never seen any. A picture is worth a thousand words they say, but the pics are not working.

[L.A.B.]

so I can send photos direct?

If you would care to email copies of the photos to me (click my email icon at the far left side of this message) then I could post them up here for you.