classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: murdo on June 14, 2013, 11:55:20 PM
-
Hello all from Australia. I am looking for a photo and information about the '46 to '48 Series 1 Ambassador two stroke. I have been led to belive that they were fitted with Webb pressed metal girder forks, and used a twin down tube rigid frame. Can anybody show or point me in the right direction of a decent photo.
Many thanks, Steve.
-
Should have a Villiers 5E engine
-
Front forks of that description were quite common on Villiers powered beasties from that era, although the twin downtube frame wouldn't have been.
What size was the Series 1 - this is the Series 3, from Sheldons.
http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/ambassador/images/Ambassador_1949_AU.jpg
Searching through old newspaper adverts is now possible online these days.
Try googling for your local (major) paper ?
Got a pic of the bike in question ?
Sounds like this could be useful ?
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/books/guide_to_ambassador_motorcycles.html
-
The series 1 used a 197cc Villers 5E. I am not sure the parts I have are from an Ambassador as the forks are straight leg and the twin front down tubes. The Carlton, James and Zundapp also had this style of pressed metal forks and similar wheels to mine, but with single down tube frame. I wanted to get a photo to be sure it either was or wasn't an Ambassador Series 1. If I can eliminate the series 1, then it may be something put together in Australia of imported components. It is not a Waratah, ACME or Norman.
-
The Series I was 1947 only. It had a single down tube frame and was not of the cradle type but instead had an open bottom section with the engine supported on engine plates.
The Series II was 1948 and also powered by the 5E. It had a different single down tube cradle type frame but posssibly with a detachable lower frame section.
Then of course we get the Series III for 1949 & 50 with a proper single down tube cradle frame and the 6E engine.
Ambassador never used a twin down tube frame. To answer your query I've just ploughed through "A Guide to Ambassador Motor Cycles" by Michael Easton and Fred Hibbert which lists(with pictures) every model of Ambassador made. Sorry, no twin down tubes.
Many makes of British lightweight used Webb pressed steel girder forks, from the early 30's through to the early 50's but offhand I can't think of anyone using a twin down tube frame. Can we have a photo?
Cheers,
-
some two stoke experts here , i have a James which was one of the last assembled by Bob Joiner (it has a blue or red seat will look again ) does anyone know how many of these he made ?
-
Thank you for the information. After reading Cardan's post about the Norman Rambler I think mine might be a parts special as it has no frame numbers. I do not have the engine so cannot be traced through that way. I just could not see these bits crushed and may not be able to get an original bike back out of it, but the detective work is still entertaining. Will be going back to the farm this week to get some photos. :)
-
Have some photos of the pieces that I have saved. I may not be able to do anything with them but I would still like to know what they were from. The frame does have a number I found under a 1/2 lb of brass on a dodgy repair. No is 10094. No other marks can be found. There is some black paint of the fork near the damper adjuster. The carb I found with it is brass with a long curved intake as per Villiers.
-
I can´t separate the scans but this was me on the remains of a 125 Ambassador in 1957, single downtube with inch by 1/4 strip from top to bottom where it had broken and the rear frame modified to give more ground clearance, probably MP forks,
The Honda 305 was an early cafe racer.
-
Those tank mounts and forks and rear wheel on your remains mark it as a 1930s Royal Enfield.
Anywhere from 1932 through to 1938, from 125cc through to 1140cc. (!).
The size of rear brake drum and sprocket tooth count may narrow it down a bit more.
Looks small, rather than big cc... ?
-
Thank R. The rear sprocket is 40 teeth of 5/8" pitch with a depressed centre held on by 3 bolts. Rear drum is 6 1/2" diameter, 36 spokes and rim was originaly chromed around edges. The frame is about the size of my SL125 Honda, so I am guessing small two stroke.
-
An early two stroke with a twin down tube frame is a pretty unusual thing, so one of the 225cc Royal Enfields of the 1930s is a pretty good bet. http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/royal_enfield_1936/Royal_Enfield_1936_06.htm
One of the members of the Veteran and Vintage MCC of South Australia has a lovely one that has been in his family since new http://vvmccsa.org.au/gallery/html/1937re.html , but yours looks a little worse for wear. Realistically it's not a viable restoration project, but an interesting relic none the less.
Leon
-
Thank you Cardan, I think that must be it (or of the same family). I never had visions of ever restoring it back to original (not enough of it) but wanted to know what it was and what it used to look like.
-
The 225cc 2stroke is listed as having 5" rear brake until 1937 and 1938, and single tube frame for 1939.
So if it was a 2stroke it can only be 1937 or 1938.
Other smaller 4 strokes also had similar features, in 1937 - the Model T 148cc
http://s23.postimg.org/75ux6sf4r/RE_frames.jpg
There are some other years and possibilities, especially if the front brake is bigger than 5".
But without more bits, tricky to identify...
Info from Gordon Mays book on Enfields.
-
Rear brake drum is 6 1/2", front 5". Both rims 19" with 36 spokes and were originaly chromed. The carb I found with it looks the same as the model A 225cc two stroke that Cardan posted of the bike in South Australia. Other bits I can see on picture also match up. I had a feeling it was a 30's bike. The frame number 10094 mean anything to anybody?
-
Hi also from Australia.
Very late '40s my Dad had a maroon colour Ambassador. It was a 197 with Web forks. He had it I guess for about four years until selling it for a car.
The reason I ask is that I'm yet to find any information on an Ambassador in that particular colour all over.
As a pre. teenager I used to ride it around our back yard. He often dropped me off to school on it and often went shopping Saturday mornings. Can well remember going a long way at one time fishing.....great days.
Any information on a maroon colour Ambassador would be appreciated.
-
Hi gossie, sorry cannot help you with the maroon Ambassador. Turned out mine is a Royal Enfield.
-
Yes "murdo", I noticed yours was on old RE.....nice thing to have.
From searching around I wonder if my Dads was a series 2? Have seen pics of S1 and S3s that look like what I remember except the colour does not match. Someone might know????
Anybody know if anybody has an Ambassador on the Gold Coast or near in Australia........I'd love to have a look at it if so.
-
What about the motorcycle museums at Haigsleigh (west of Gatton) or at Nabiac. I was at Nabiac last week taking photos of the RE's they had there, but I cannot remember if they had any Ambassadors. Give them a ring and ask them?
-
Thanks for that info. Both have websites but no mention of Ambassador.
I might get up to the Haigsleigh one in the future when up that way just to take a look see. Thanks again. :)
-
Nabiac has lots more than what is on their website, over 900 bikes in all. Haigsleigh has lots not on display, but if you ask them they will take you out the back to look at something special. Another one is in Peterborough in South Australia that has some unusual bikes.
-
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ambassador-Motorbike-/111190982466
I think I'd want the bike to be very clean and running well for that price...
Leon
-
Well well well, how interesting. That's about a 1500k south of here so there's no way I would go look at it.....pity. Will keep an eye on it to see what it makes?????
There was or perhaps still is another one on UK eBay with a chequerd tank that look in far worse condition than the OZ one.
So would it be a Series 3?????
-
The Series I was 1947 only. It had a single down tube frame and was not of the cradle type but instead had an open bottom section with the engine supported on engine plates.
The Series II was 1948 and also powered by the 5E. It had a different single down tube cradle type frame but posssibly with a detachable lower frame section.
Then of course we get the Series III for 1949 & 50 with a proper single down tube cradle frame and the 6E engine.
Ambassador never used a twin down tube frame. To answer your query I've just ploughed through "A Guide to Ambassador Motor Cycles" by Michael Easton and Fred Hibbert which lists(with pictures) every model of Ambassador made. Sorry, no twin down tubes.
Many makes of British lightweight used Webb pressed steel girder forks, from the early 30's through to the early 50's but offhand I can't think of anyone using a twin down tube frame. Can we have a photo?
Cheers,
Could you tell me the difference between a 5E and 6E Villiers engine? I'm still trying to work out in my head what year my Fathers Ambassador may have been.
I seem to be only able to pull up 6E pics. From memory his bike had one exhaust pipe on near side. Does 5E and 6E both have same exhausts.
-
Hello
Re: Ambassador Motor Cycles
I'm only an infrequent visitor to these pages, but if anybody needs any help or advice with anything Ambassador related (the British manufacturer, not the Moto Guzzi machines, or the badged up Chinese machines), please get in touch.
This is best done by email - ambassadorguide@gmail.com
Thanks
Michael Easton
VMCC and BTSC Ambassador Marque Specialist
Co-author of "A Guide to Ambassador Motor Cycles"
Keeper and compiler of the Ambassador Machine Register
-
A Guide to Ambassador Motorcycles? That's a best-seller right there.. ;)
-
10+ years betwixt replies
Business is brisk ....
I'm a little surprised that Ambassador doesn't have a web page or 2 on the brand.
Easily done, and helps bring like minded fiends together.
Sp deliberate !
-
I have a copy of “A Guide to Ambassador Motorcycles”. It’s very good. In fact it can easily stand as a textbook example of how to present the practical information needed to identify exactly what you have.
Yes it’s a niche publication but does that matter? There were many British niche manufacturers, Dot, Greeves, Norman and so forth. All could do with an equivalent practical guide. It would cut through an awful lot of bull dust.
Of course getting a prospective owner to actually read one is another thing altogether.
Anyway, Happy New Year to all. Hope none of you are caught up in the various natural disasters dominating the news.
Cheers,
-
Happy New Year to you too!! My natural disaster is limited to my usually-bone-dry grass being lush, green and long enough to need constant mowing - not a usual Adelaide summer activity. So all good here, but who knows what awaits later in summer...
I wanted to buy a bike book from the UK the other day, but the "postage" + "import duties" (whatever they are - way more than GST) more than doubled the cost, so that one is on pause. I don't have an Ambassador, but I'd read the book and probably enjoy it.
Cheers
Leon
-
If the seller is quoting "import duties" or "customs fees" then they are using ebays global shipping program.
Which is a complete rip off !!!
May have been fine back when nothing was flying during covid.
But now all is back to "normal", way past its use by date.
I had a little booklet mailed to me recently, came by Royal Mail.
Was quite inexpensive.
Ask that supplier if they will post by Royal Mail ?
Seems some Oz suppliers have books posted out here in bulk, can be quite competitive.
Worth hunting about ?
-
I confess I rarely buy new books. I tend to haunt the abebook second hand book site where I can email the seller with enquires before I commit myself.
I never buy off eBay. In my view that’s where the junk tatty copies are sold.
You get a proper description of your prospective buy on abebooks.
He doesn’t know it but Mick is quite honoured that I happily paid for a new copy of his “ Guide to Ambassadors “. Couldn’t wait for it to appear on abebooks.
-
Thank you sir. I felt very honoured that every copy of "A Guide to Ambassador Motor Cycles" was sold and that feedback was positive.
I might get round to updating it as a third edition, when time allows.
Best regards. M