classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: cardan on June 20, 2023, 01:37:17 AM
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I've mentioned before that we're trying to extend the Australian motorcycle tome out to 1960. I confess I don't know much about the period 1942 - 1960, and even after searching I've only come up with a handful of names:
Acme, NSW - often discussed here, with much the same Villiers-engined motorcycle built both sides of WW2
Avion, WA - a scooter that made it to limited production
Bryson, Victoria - a scooter that made it to prototype, but probably not to production
Malvern Star, Victoria - mostly autocycles, but some small motorcycles built post WW2, in interesting welded frames
Speed - motor attachment, probably Victoria, maybe WA. Much discussed here, but still very short of info. http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=6341.msg31742#msg31742
Super Elliott, SA - built their own motorcycles in the 1920s, in the 1950s sold Villiers-engined Super Elliott autocycles and small motorcycles, maybe rebadged Ramblers and Roamers as discussed here many, many years back
Tilbrook, SA - interesting bikes, and I have a fair bit of info
Waratah, NSW - also discussed here a lot; like their prewar stuff their post war motorcycles were mostly rebadged Excelsior-type things.
I also came across a few "specials" built for racing (which I tend to ignore unless they are particularly interesting).
Any other ideas? I fear I may be missing some...
Thanks,
Leon
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I don't know whether it counts, but the AJS Dealer in Sydney did an all-chrome "SilverStreak" model in the early 1950s.
To emulate the 1930s models of the same name/specification.
The suspicion is that all the chroming was done in Sydney, since the UK folks had no inkling of this.
And Australian Norton dealers in the early 1950s had a rigid framed version of Dominator, offered alongside the (plunger framed) Model 7,
for 20 quid less. This was a factory done job though - and apparently just turned up in Oz, much to the Dealers surprise.
The UK folks swore black and blue that no such model existed.
But it is in the factory build records.
And Roy Bacon had a photo in one of his publications - "never built".
OK, so these barely make the grade as Australian made.
But they are Australian only models.
There are Enfield Wallaby models, and BSA Bushman models perhaps in the same category ??
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In a similar vein, there were a number of folks offering to convert rigid framed bikes to plunger rear suspension.
One of the folks on a forum had a Trood done Norton Model 18. And he was really proud of it, showed it much.
Ozzie manufacture, on a limited scale ?
I could never understand folks who found such bikes, and "restored" it back to a rigid frame ...
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Thanks R - some good suggestions.
Trood I like: he already gets a mention under Trood (F.I.T.) for building some interesting racing motorcycles in the 1930s. He designed the frames, made the patterns and machined the castings, and on one machine designed and made the front fork. I'll add a sentence or two about his later exploits. (His name was Francis Ivan Trood, but he was known as 'Cam'.)
'Unknown in the UK' is something that goes back to the earliest days, but where they also carry the well-known brand name we've ignored them. We have decided to put in a few "made in the UK but unknown there" brands, and even one or two that are "almost unknown" in their home country. After all, if it takes us some serious research to determine that an obscure brand sold in Australia was in fact made in the UK for export, we may as well tell people. Particularly if the brand doesn't appear in compendiums of British makes.
I came up with one more last night: the Healing Cyclemaster used a purpose-built frame built to accommodate the Cyclemaster wheel attachment in the rear. It was built and sold for a couple of years in the early 1950s. Very unexciting, but...
By the way, there is an entry for "Bushman" already: not the BSA Bushman (Bantam for farmers), but a pre WW1 machine advertised to farmers by Bennett & Wood in Sydney. It was in fact a shaft-drive 2-speed FN, rebadged Bushman. In the big smoke, B&W rebadge the same machine as Speedwell.
More 1950s suggestions very welcome!
Leon
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I’m a little cynical about Malvern Star “motorcycles”.
In 1949 Villiers introduced their first postwar all new engine units but we don’t know how long thé changeover to the new production took. I presume there would have been some outstanding orders for the superseded models and it would have taken some time for these orders to be shipped out here and built up into complete machines so the final remnants mightn’t have have been sold until well in to 1950/51.
Whatever the case Malvern Star had to update to suit the new engines. Their new version Malvern Star used the new 2 speed 1F 98cc engine but by that time Bruce Small, owner of Malvern Star got the Jawa/CZ agency which ran rings around the autocycle concept. Why continue with them?
Much the same story with the 9D powered Acme. Villiers stopped making the 9D in 1949 and BSA introduced the Bantam in 1949. Bennett & Wood made the Acme and were the local BSA agents. Why continue making them?
I don’t take a great deal of notice of English opinion. They only know the home market. They don’t really know their own firms export dealings. They’ve learnt that different models were made for the US market but it rarely sinks in that other export markets were also in play.
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Yes I think 1951-ish for the Malvern Star "motorcycles" with the Villiers 1F, but I think they called them all "Auto-bykes", pedals or not.
In mid-1951 Bruce Small advertised for spray painters, and one of the tasks listed was high quality painting on Auto-bikes - larger flat areas than the bicycles I guess. During 1952 Small was still displaying Malvern Star autobykes alongside the range of Jawa/CZ, but in 1953 and 1954 adverts were for autobykes "reconditioned in our factory" and these were sold already registered. So my guess is that Malvern Star production petered out in 1951-52.
Re the old style Malvern Star Auto-bykes with the Junior De Luxe, production started in 1941 (they claimed to have 500 engines on hand!!) and there was a major upgrade late in 1946. According to the Age, 15 October 1946:
"... Petrol tank (two gallons) is of latest design for auto-cycle use. It provides one of the outstanding alterations in appearance between this and previous models. Perhaps the most revolutionary change is in the frame construction. Instead of lugs and castings, the whole frame is low-temperature welded, giving greater strength, less weight and cleaner lines."
So 1941 to about 1951-2, I reckon. [Edit: Certainly start date was earlier than 1941 - September 1940 or earlier.]
Museums Victoria have a 1F "motorcycle" https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/374641 which they date "c1948", probably 3 years or so too early.
Confusingly they have another machine they claim to be Malvern Star, with a French Mobylette engine. https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/391795 I suppose I will look...
Leon
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I wonder what "low temperature welded" is ?
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Possibly just gas welding with a bronze filler rod, with the tubes butted together? The process of building a frame with lugs was more akin to soldering - 'spelter' (which came in rolls, about 3/16" square) was used, something like silver soldering these days.
Leon
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Vic Police recognised Malvern Star production beginning1940and finishing1951. That circa 1948 Vic Museum Malvern Star is fitted with a 1951 1F power unit.
It so happens I have a Malvern Star sales brochure for the original Junior de Luxe powered version. Essentially the cycle parts appear to be pure heavyweight commercial bicycle with unsprung braced front forks. Emphasis was made of its ability to cruise at 25mph and average fuel consumption of 140mpg!
The main thrust of the brochure concerned two two lady riders who first toured Tasmania on their Malvern Stars and then rode them the568 miles from Melbourne to Sydney 16/3 ($1.63)
The brochure is undated but it would have to be postwar after petrol rationing was lifted.
I confess I couldn’t get excited about riding a Malvern Star to Sydney,
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Do I sense negativity? Thanks for the info.
I have some nice stuff about two women who rode Melbourne to Sydney on their Malvern Stars - one an olympic swimmer the other an aviatrix. They arrived in Sydney on 22 July 1946. Their bikes were the "long tank" models in the heavy bicycle frame with the rigid-but-braced front fork; the next model with the Webb-style pressed-steel spring fork and welded frame was announced later in the year.
So I have a prototype (possibly imported, maybe Norman-based) in 1940, production of the rigid ones 1941-46, production of spring fork ones 1946-1950, the 1F and 2F models around 1951.
The loose ends in the Malvern Star story are a surviving 2F auto-byke which looks for all the world identical to a Norman/Rambler (notably it has centre-sprung fork with single tube - rather than pressed steel - legs), and the Mobylette-based machine said to be assembled by MS from French parts. I'd be happy to know anything about these, but equally happy to gloss over them!
Leon
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Hi Leon,
My sales brochure involves the same two women and the bike illustrated is one of the machines ridden to Sydney.
And yes, I am a bit negative about autocycles. What can you actually do with one? They’re quite limited and although there is a relevant club in the UK, there isn’t much elsewhere.
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I've been at classic bike races in the UK, and at lunch times the tiddlers get out and circulate on the circuit.
Looked like they were having fun !
It should be commented that the BICYCLE times for Sydney-to-Melbourne and vice-versa was keenly contested in the 1930s.
No picture of the medal !
https://findingaids.slv.vic.gov.au/repositories/3/archival_objects/143621
https://www.lavelocita.cc/la-velocita-rides/billie-samuels-1934-melbourne-to-sydney
Etc
Talk about a pint-sized powerhouse !
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But Oppies medal has a pic
https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/content/media/32/616982-small.jpg
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Love the Billie Samuels article!
Malvern Star was a powerhouse in Australian bicycling, and clearly they marketed strongly to women. They often had full-page adverts in The Australian Women's Weekly, many in colour. Pity that the one celebrating Pat Norton and Nan Watts riding Melb-Sydney-Melb on their Auto-bykes was in black and white.
I have made a discovery that shouldn't surprise me. People WANT their old autocycle to be a Malvern Star, and I found a few pictured on the web, claimed to be Malvern Stars but clearly not. Which left me wandering about the Norman-looking "Malvern Star" pictured above (from the 1990s) - maybe it was just an old Norman restored and mis-identified as a Malvern Star. Ditto for the Mobylette thing in the Victorian Museum, although I wonder... but I've had enough of auto-cycles. If I explore further I may want one.
Leon
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Yes, to change the subject entirely, I have come across a Ron Robb in the Vic Police book.
This is a Velocette engined special first registered in 1948 and was so different from the factory version that it was registered as an entirely different make. Has anyone any information?
One assumes Ron Robb was the owner /builder.
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Thanks for that - except I can't find a cracker on the Ron Robb. Without a story it's hard to know what to think: many machines over the years were registered with the owner/builder's name or initials, but these ranged from just a repaint to an imaginative build, with the odd admin error at the rego office thrown in.
This set me thinking, and I suppose it's worth saying something about Les Diener's Eldee? https://velocetteracing.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/oba_eldee-velos-screen.pdf
(Oh dear: Can anyone prove that Malvern Star actually built a 2F-powered autocycle c1951? The model shown in the 1950 buyer's guide is still the Junior De Luxe, and while there are mentions of the 1F version with 2 gears and ks in 1951 and 1952, I can't find any period evidence for a 2F single-speed model. I'm 99% sure that the "Malvern Star" 2F pictured higher up is not a Malvern Star at all. The frame on the 1F version is quite distinctive - for example at the back the chain stay and seat stay is one curved tube, with a plate welded on in the MS way for the rear axle mount. I'd expect a 2F version to use the same frame.)
Leon
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A number of Shannons auctions of Malvern Stars state that the 2F engine was used postwar.
When the pictures of the bikes sold clearly were NOT !
You'd have to conclude that Shannons wouldn't know a 2F if they tripped over it...
2F
(https://i.postimg.cc/tCdpgCDj/Villiers-2-F-engine.jpg)
Shannons
" Like many of its British counterparts, the Malvern Star autocycle carried the small type of fuel tank
and post-war Juniors used the Villiers 2F engine. "
https://www.shannons.com.au/library/images/auctions/A4V1P7M6R6D6L8P5/1600x1066/c1947-malvern-star-autocycle.jpg
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There are British examples assuredly powered by the 2F
New Hudsons. Both 1954
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1139/4734814080_8539446e9a_b.jpg)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/New_Hudson_98cc_Autocycle_-_Flickr_-_mick_-_Lumix.jpg
Very smart little machines. I like that green un ...
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Yes the standard Malvern Star story - used by auction houses, museums and others - is different from the version I have come up with. There is a story about "Standard" (rigid) and "De Luxe" (pressed front fork) versions running parallel, but I don't think so - more like pre-1947 and 1947-on. Ditto the stories about "1F and 2F" options in later years. Might be correct, but I've yet to see a (real) 2F-powered Malvern Star - either period or a survivor. There are a dozen of so "facts" in the Museum Victoria description of their "1948" MS https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/374641 that I disagree with. Dating of the various survivors is pretty fanciful, usually dated way to early but sometimes - like the Shannons "1947" in your link - too late. A rigid MS is certainly 1941-1946.
Funny how hard it is to get to the correct version of events for such a popular and "recent" machine.
Leon
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By the way, were the pressed forks Webb, or Web pattern?
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The Vic Police registration book mentions 1F engines only in Malvern Star only never the 2F. I suppose I’ll have to get the relevant tray of engine number cards and trawl through them to answer this question once and for all. How long have I got?
I just did my latest tray changeover two days ago. The current deal is I sort yet another tray of Ford engine numbers and get a motorcycle tray of my choice. I currently have Scott, Star and some Simplex. Sorting them out and writing them up is not an overnight job.
How soon do you need a definitive Malvern Star answer?
As far as I know Webb were the last man standing providing postwar pressed steel forks. I’ve seen no evidence of anyone else.
Cheers,
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Thanks - don't hurry to check the MS records, as I'm pretty certain they never used the 2F, seemingly confirmed by your police book. At any time, Bruce Small Ltd adverts (from all over the country) only mentioned 'Malvern Star Autocycle' or 'Malvern Star Autobyke', without listing different models. The new MS Autobyke for 1951 was 2 speeds + ks in all the (many) adverts I've seen. My best guess is that during 1950 MS were still using the Junior De Luxe - I wonder if they were still working their way through the 500 engines they supposedly had "on hand" in 1941. No doubt engine and frame numbers would shed light, but that is work for the MS Marque Specialist, which is neither you nor me!!! That said, I'd love to know if there were any "52M" frame prefixes out there; I suspect there was some manufacture in 1952.
Leon
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Found this frame for sale online, a 1951/52 IF (2-speed + ks) model. Good opportunity to see the welded frame - presumably bronze welded with oxyacetylene.
Leon
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yes ,the bronze /brass filler can be clearly seen..........beat the Rickmans by 20 years
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This would seem to have a 2F engine in it.
https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/content/media/21/1091571-large.jpg
Even if it is described as 1948
https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/374641
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Museums Victoria have a 1F "motorcycle" https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/374641 which they date "c1948", probably 3 years or so too early.
So is this a 1F or 2F ?
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1F has two speeds and ks, 2F is single speed, so the one in the Victorian museum is 1F. Naming seems counterintuitive! The two units look quite similar from the drive side. https://www.james-motorcycles.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/1954-villiers-mk1f-instructionsbook.pdf
Lest anyone take museum info too seriously, some comments below.
Leon
1. "The Malvern Star Auto-byke was first introduced after World War II." Prototype in 1940, production models from late 1941.
2. "Malvern Star assembled the machine in Australia using locally-made frames and a variety of imported components including a British-built 98cc single-cylinder Villers Mk. 1 Junior two-stroke engine with a two-speed gearbox." From the prototype until 1950, MS used the Villiers Junior De Luxe, which was single speed. (Not sure of the exact nomenclature, but the Mk 1 Junior was probably the late 1930s verision, with the one-piece cylinder and head, which pre-dated the De Luxe.) The 2-speed Villiers 1F (maybe this is what they mean by "Mk 1"?) was used in 1951, into 1952.
3. "Small had obtained an exclusive Australian licence for these engines in 1945." Interesting, but if true I don't know why Bruce Small Ltd didn't advertise the engines for sale loose. I don't know of anyone else in Australia making autocycles post war, so MS were more-or-less exclusive!
4. "The Museum's Malvern Star Auto-byke was built in about 1948..." All single speed up to and including 1950. My best guess would be 1951, or maybe 1952. Presumably the frame number prefix is 51M or 52M.
5. "... and cost 24 Pounds when new." They were sold Australia wide, and the price varied a bit, but in Melbourne the advertised price in 1951 was 89 pounds.
6. "The Museum also holds an earlier Malvern Star autocycle which incorporates a 49cc French-built Mobylette engine." Interesting claim - they say their other MS was built in Australia from French parts. Not sure, but in their poor photo it looks awfully like a c1950-1 Mobylette AV3 Standard, sold in huge quantities in France and elsewhere. I can find no hint that MS produced autocycles with Mobylette engines, but maybe they toyed with the idea.
7. "In the post-1945 years Malvern Star also sold a diminutive 32cc Berini cycle-motor priced at around 8 Pounds." Indeed they did, from 1951, but the advertised price was 32 gns. fitted free to your bicycle. Not sure where the museum got it's price info!
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I now have the MS engine number record cards. A quick flick through shows about a third of them were fitted with the 1F engine. All having the engine number prefix 716A. I have found a solitary bike with a 2F number.
It would appear Bruce Small bought three substantial batches of engines at separate times.
More info as I sort them properly.
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Id think the prices quoted are actually deposits ...8 pound down and 52 monthly payments of 12/6.....before consumer finance rules ,advertising a deposit in very large print was a trap for the unwary.........Bruce Small had his own consumer finance company,and I think that contributed greatly to his fortune.........My father worked for Bruce Small on the Gold Coast in sand pumping and real estate sales ..........others had gone broke there trying to develop the swamps ,but Small had back up millions while the scepticism for pumped land was overcome........blocks of pumped sand that were sold for 100 pounds are today worth $20 million...........he was the first of the "White Shoe Brigade" that nearly put Bjelke into Kirrabilly.
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This Bruce Small sounds like quite a character !
about a third of them were fitted with the 1F engine. All having the engine number prefix 716A.
https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/content/media/32/1091582-medium.jpg
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There would be plenty of TV archival footage of him ,if anyone wants to see the man.....Thing Big/Vote Small......he was mayor of the Gold Coast five times ,a member of state parliament,his friend jelky knighted him....Sir Bruce Small.....he was in the "Joh for PM " campaign that came very close to putting jelky in the PMs job,and toppled the Fraser government in the meantime.
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716/29178 - will be interesting to see if this appears in 33d6's rego records.
Bruce Small became Sir Bruce Small - a long way from purchasing a single bicycle shop in 1920. I knew about various business dealings, but the real estate development in Queensland is a ripper.
The one 2F [edit: woops, not 1F as I wrote originally] engine has ruined my claim that none were built. My reputation will be in tatters. Three groups of engines? The "about 500 engines on hand" in 1941 was reported from a shareholders' meeting, and I expect will be close to correct. Then another batch of Villiers Junior De Luxe for the new models in late 1946, then a batch of 1Fs for the 1951 models? Any frame numbers? I'd love to know if there were 1952 models, or if sales in 1952 were left over from the previous year. The last advert I have seen for a new Auto-byke is December 1952.
Hate to confess, but I'm quite excited.
Leon
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The 1941 date would correspond with the UK govt reopening of exports for a short time after closing civillian production....they needed money for the war........post war ,UK manufacturers had to export half their production to get materials credits.......so very likely Small got some very good deals on the Villiers engines in the late 40s.........Sterling (UK Pound) was devalued 25% in 1947/48 to stimulate exports.........but as Australia would have been on Sterling too,I dont think that would have had any effect.
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Slightly relevant ,our family got the first car in 1952..a new Peugeot 203..no more bicycles or motorbikes ............Why a Peugeot,you may ask ?.....I was told it was the only new car where the waiting list was under 6 months........a Holden was 12 months wait ,if you were an ex serviceman...there was an 800 pound subsidy.
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The one IF engine has ruined my claim that none were built.
Shouldn't this be the one 2F ?
Or am I getting more confuseredly !!
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Yes.
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Malvern Star, engine number 716/29178. Registration number AH028, date first registered, 5/6/1952.
Happy Leon?
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Extremely. Could only be better if we had the frame number of the bike. I will ask the Museum.
Sorry for being a fusspot about something as uninteresting (?!) as the Malvern Star autocycle, but it was probably the largest production Australian-made motorcycle, and because it was sold truly Australia-wide they turn up literally everywhere. Worth getting the story right if we can. I'm pretty confident in the story now, with the four distinctly different models: prototype 1940-41, rigid production bikes 1942-1946, sprung bikes 1947-1950, two-speed bikes 1950-51. Hopefully the rego records will confirm (or contradict), and if we can guess at production numbers even better!
Leon
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Some cards have the frame number. Not many but some. There was no requirement for the recording clerk to include it but some did.
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Came across this pic.
Came in a range of colours, didn't they ...
(https://www.outdoorking.com/forum/uploads/usergals/2011/08/full-2933-2337-dsc02717malvern_star_autobyke..jpg)
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They did, but I'm not sure if two-tone blue was one of them. The scheme I like the best (!) is the green frame, cream tank, and red wheels - I have a period reference for that. Some were black with cream tank, but beyond that I'm not sure.
The blue bike is one of the 1947-1950 models, but it has a feature that has me puzzled: the chain tensioner on the pedal chain near the back wheel. Some 1947-1950 models at least had an eccentric bracket for the pedal spindle, which was rotated to tension the pedal chain. (The same system was used on motorcycles from before 1910.) Can't imagine that you need both the eccentric spindle AND a chain tensioner, so presumably there was a changeover at some point. Beyond my pay grade...
I have visions of 33d6 in a medieval library (think Name of the Rose) poring over MS registration cards and musing over the revelations. I'm seriously excited.
Leon
[Edit: I should have said that I've seen the chain tensioner at the rear - like a derailleur - on other Malvern Stars, including some 1942-1946 models with the long tank.]
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I could just imagine Breaker Morant riding across the Nullarbor Plain on that little feller... 8)
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Trying to seperate out details in the card system is a nightmare. First I have to transcribe the details into a manageable format so I can then count details one by one. There is something like a thousand MS cards and so far I’ve listed about a quarter of them. To say it’s a boring job is being polite but to be worthwhile I have to get it exactly right.
The end result should give us a reasonably definitive MS database but it’s rather a dull plod to prepare it.
Personally I think the immediate postwar supply difficulties drove most of the strange little oddities we worry about now. MS built what they could with what they could get their hands on. There was no subtlety to it.
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There is something like a thousand MS cards and so far I’ve listed about a quarter of them.
OMG what an heroic effort! Seriously, no hurry.
In my poking around old newspapers I was surprised how widespread MS autocycle sales were - certainly the Victorian sales (and therefore registrations) will account for the bulk of production, but sales elsewhere in Australia might account for 10-20-30% It was quite a business.
Leon
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Ive seen claimed that there were 1000 company owned stores and 10,000 accredited sellers in Australia for MS...... they made 50,000 bicycles a year.....Ive thought of restoring my old MS ,its pretty sad.
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C'mon. Give us a photo and the engine and frame numbers! It's MS fever...
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Its a pedal cycle ....."You'd be better on a Malvern Star".
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You could add a Berini "Motor Egg"!!! Little engines like the Berini, Cyclemaster, etc. at 50cc or less spelled the demise of the 98cc Villiers units.
Leon
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Does anyone know where the frame number is stamped on a Malvern Star Auto-byke? Museum Victoria has had a look on their 1951 model, but can't see it anywhere.
Thanks
Leon
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Found it - on the frame adjacent to the seat post - and it has a "52M" frame prefix. So the Museums Victoria Malvern Star Auto-byke is a product of the magnificent South Melbourne factory in 1952, likely the last year of production.
https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/374641
Leon
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So in the light of this, are they going to amend that "circa 1948" ??
Do we have an address for that Sth Melbourne factory.
Looks quite substantial ...
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" the new £20,000 modern factory to be erected at Clarendon Street, South Melbourne, "
circa 1937 it would seem
Plenty of press announcements, but few actual details ...
"on the corner of Clarendon Street and Normanby Road in South Melbourne"
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I've now transcribed about 2/3rds of the MS cards and now havve a fairly good idea of their activities.
Basically they only ever made three models and for engines used only the JDL (Junior de Luxe) or the 2 speed 1F (no pedals, kick start).
The JDL can be divided into twp eras, initial manufacture, 1940-46, engine prefix XX or XXA, post war engine prefix 586 or S 586, 1946-49. After them is the 1F 2 speeder minus pedals, engine prefix 716 or 716A. 716 was a generic Villiers prefix dating from 1949 to 51 and 716A emerges in 1952. 716 prefix engines can be found in BAC, Bond,Bown, Sun and others. It appears to be the generic number Villiers used for batches of engines for 'B' League manufacturers.
So far I've found only one factory made sngle speed 2F powered MS. As Australia didn't have the pushbike pedal start legal requirement for autocycles I think MS considered a 2 speed kick start autocycle was a better seller than the pedalling off arrangement.
Frame numbers are scrappy Unlike the car cards the motorcycle section cards are handwritten. Some cards had a space for the engine enumber, some didn't. There was no requirement for the clerk to record the frame number so many didn't. Nevetheless there are enough frame numbers recorded to make some reasonable assumptions. To date it appears the autocycle numbers were lumped in with the regular bicycle frame production. The individual frame number appears to bear no relation to reality. The only part of value to us is the identifying prefix. It appears MS used a single digit plus an M in the 1940's so 8M means 1948, 9M 1949 and so on. 1950 was still a single figure 0 but then they started to add the 5 for the decade so 51M and so on. I will give highest and lowest numbers when I've finished.
Any question?
PS, The Malvern Star factory no longer exists, the Melbourne Exhibition and Conference Centre, known to all Melburnians as Jeffs Shed now covers the site.
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PS, The Malvern Star factory no longer exists, the Melbourne Exhibition and Conference Centre, known to all Melburnians as Jeffs Shed now covers the site.
Yes I just got there.
"The Malvern Star factory was located on the corner of Clarendon Street and Normanby Road in South Melbourne
which is now the site of the Melbourne Conference and Exhibition Centre just opposite Crown Casino.
Attached to the Malvern Star Factory was a Malvern Star Cycle Shop.
It had its own wharfage"
Thats a heck of a site !
Real Estate gold !
Do we know when it came down ?
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Yes, it was a pig of an intersection. No traffic lights plus trams and lots of heavy haulage coming up from Fishermen’s Bend. As a country lad come to the big city to do part of his apprenticeship I was well out of my league negotiating that one.
I well remember watching one of those Singer 9 tourers of the day slowly being squashed by a big semi driving over it at that intersection. The semi driver didn’t even know it was under him as he flattened it like a bug.
I remember the Singer 9 quite well but for the life of me can’t remember what I was riding.
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Are we in danger of knowing everything there is to know about Malvern Star autocycles? I feel very bad because although I have been in their presence, I don't think I've ever touched one or even examined one closely. I promise to pay attention next time I see one.
Re the factory: This is my favourite view to put it in position, a stone's throw from where the Polly Woodside is/was moored. https://citycollection.melbourne.vic.gov.au/35a-91a-image-showing-heavy-traffic-on-spencer-street-bridge-south-melbourne/ We're looking south down Spencer St looking over the Yarra River. The Bruce Small factory is the white building directly under the ASTOR neon sign. Judging by the prevalence of FB/EK Holdens, we're in the early 1960s.
This entire view is totally obliterated today. The was an historical survey in 1982: see Graeme Butler's fab photos and historical records on Flickr, including shots like this of the Bruce Small factory as it stood in 1982 https://www.flickr.com/photos/7849945@N02/15686586477/in/album-72157647618217269/ . I reckon around 1982-83 I rode my 1930 BSA Sloper to a VMCCV event at the Polly Woodside https://www.nationaltrust.org.au/places/polly-woodside/ , but no-one drew my attention to the home of the MS autocycle so close by.
33d6: brilliant stuff! I'm interested to know lots of things, but initially how does the evolution of the MS feel around 1940-41-42. From what I have, I'd guess only a handful of "prototypes" in late 1940, and perhaps only a few machines built during 1941 because Bruce Small told shareholders at the annual meeting in December 1941 that the company "was about to begin the production of motorised bicycles". You don't tell shareholders that if you've been making them all year? They had "about 500" Villiers JDL motors on hand at this time, so no doubt a lot of planning had gone into upcoming production.
Of course total numbers registered in Victoria will be of great interest.
Cheers
Leon
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Interesting stuff.
There are some views "inside the factory".
Scanned very small, it must be said. (unless someone can find any bigger views ?)
Couple of moped views later on - not their manufacture though.
https://find.slv.vic.gov.au/discovery/search?query=any,contains,malvern%20star&tab=searchProfile&search_scope=slv_local&vid=61SLV_INST:SLV&offset=0
I see the announcement (that bicycles) used BSA components.
(https://www.ridemedia.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Opperman_MS_08.jpg)
Trove sez there was also a MS factory in Perth ?
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It’s frustrating Leon but many of the XXA prefix JDL’s are at the at the end of the MS cards trays so I won’t have a full picture until I’ve transcribed all of them. The cards are filed purely by engine number disregarding all prefixes. As Villiers appear to number each engine type separately a new production 1F that has a lower engine number than the last of the XXA is thus filed in front of of the earlier engine.
On top of this it seems Villiers juggled production between customers. In essence if three firms each ordered 500 engines Villiers would “drip feed” each firm enough engines to keep production going rather completely fill one order thus leaving the other two high and dry meanwhile. Villiers tried hard not to give any customer preference (or not be seen to anyway).
The upshot of all this is that I have small batches of consecutive numbers of each variation with no rhyme nor reason to it. I can’t give definitive answers until all are transcribed.
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We really appreciate your voluntary efforts on this !
Its indeed a labour of love, but gives a rare view of otherwise unobtainable detail.
Our hearty thanks....
The pic(s) that Leon found of the factory just above also needs to get a mention.
That was near unfindable in the search results ...
No bloomin picture !
http://vhd.heritage.vic.gov.au/search/nattrust_result_detail/64566
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Couple of moped views later on - not their manufacture though...
Trove sez there was also a MS factory in Perth ?
The "moped views" show the machine/machines that I call the "prototype". I've posted a photo previously - the second bike down in http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=6172.msg30186#msg30186 . The machine is branded Malvern Star, and I know it is early because I have a very bad newspaper photo from January 1941 with the same bike - with the funny low tank with a "tabletop" - pacing cyclists in Tasmania, described as a Malvern Star. Not sure why the library is so protective of these images, as in Australia there is no copyright on photos taken before 1955.
On reading about MS frame numbers, I went through 36 pages of discussion on one of the bicycling threads - the link is in the thread referenced above. There were MS pushbikes built in (at least) Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide, with the appropriate letter code on the frame number M, S, B, P and A. Pretty sure all auto-cycles were made in Melbourne.
Leon
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Whacko, going back through that old thread plus skimming through the bicycle forum thread shows I don’t need to worry about the frame numbers except confirm the autocycle numbering system fits in with the general Malvern Star system of the period. Which basically was known already. That’s one job ticked off.
I was also pleased to to see the bicycle thread covered braced forks on Army bikes so the braced forks on the initial style autocycle were no novelty to the factory.
Finally, I liked the remark about the factory using whatever building materials they could lay their hands on for Army bikes due to wartime shortages. I believe that ran through to the autocycles as well.
Good stuff Leon.
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Exactly. Here's a relevant snippet re wartime production of Malvern Star bicycles, no doubt relevant to autocycles as well:
"During the war when overseas shipments of cycle parts ceased, Allied Bruce Small Ltd undertook the manufacture in Australia of many parts it had previously been considered impossible to make in this country. These were urgently required for the manufacture of thousands of military bicycles and further thousands for essential civilian use.
Many thousands of pounds have been spent in importing from England the latest machinery for rapid precision manufacture of these parts. Chain wheels and cranks, pedals, hubs, sprockets, spokes, tubular steel, cable brakes and many other parts are now being manufactured in Australia."
Notable absent from the list are frame lugs; as R pointed out lots of BSA lugs were used. The new "auto byke" (the name delightfully ripped off from the Excelsior Autobyk) for 1946 was all welded, so few lugs were needed.
Leon
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Some one should tell the museum their prices are wrong too.......what they quote are deposits ....ride away with lots more to pay.
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Hi John,
I see the date on the Museum Victoria MS has been updated to 1952, so that's a good start. I'm working with them on their "other" "Malvern Star" https://collections.museumsvictoria.com.au/items/391795 , which to me looks like a pretty standard 1950-51 Mobylette, but maybe there is something in the story that it was "built in Melbourne from French components".
When we've got that sorted, and 33d6 has finished his analysis, we'll have the full MS autocycle story and we can straighten out the few funny things (like the prices) that have slipped into the museum descriptions.
In the meantime, I'm helping a friend to rebuild his 1917 Regnis, which means I revisit A.G. Healing frame numbers and dating, and I'm revisiting an early Clipper motorcycle built in South Australia around 1906, and I'm still working on the other 1942-1960 Australian-made bikes. Plenty to keep me busy.
Leon
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I've now transcribed all the Malvern Star cards recording engine number and the first time it was registered in Victoria and can say the following. Remember, Victorian registrations only.
There were 985 cards most of which were straight Malvern Star machines but some peculiar blow ins as well. The clip on engine era really confused the Registration branch so what they did was record the make of bicycle as the vehicle, so Malvern Star bicycles with clip ons attached are here also. There are two Berini, two Cyclemaster and two Cucciolo plus a couple were they didn't actually say what the make of engine was but recorded an engine number advising it belonged to a 1/4hp, 25cc engine. There was a single 2F powered MS plus another that had its original 1F engine replaced with a 2F. One power crazed enthusiast replaced his 1F with a 125cc 9D engine. Finally, there was a solitary Malvern Star/Mobylette.
There was some wartime production but not a great deal. Malvern Star may have had the engines but we've already read how they had issues making all the other bits and pieces needed to make a complete machine. Anyway, annual war years registrations were as follows. 1941 - 2, 1942 - 2, 1943 - 3, 1944 - 25, 1945 - 4 up until VE Day and I couldn't remember the month of VJ Day. Thats the minimum as there are hints that wartime record keeping wasn't as accurate as it could be. Many reasons for that at the time of course. In view of world events I don't think there was anyone there carefully dotting every i or crossing every t. The odd one got missed out. I'll do a bit more looking around now I have all cards in a countable format.
Last thing, there appears to have been two prototypes. One was the first 1941 registration the other quite a bit later.
Any questions?
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Oh wow. Amazing. 985-ish Malvern Stars in Victoria might translate to (wild guess) 1200-1300 registered Australia-wide. Maybe more - you could inspect a Malvern Star autocycle in a Bruce Small branch in Innisfail in far north Queensland or Norseman in rural WA. Lots of national advertising and in Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane and Perth.
The shock is the really small numbers for 1943, 1944 and the first part of 1945. I was ready for tiny numbers in 1940, 1941 and 1942, but I expected way more from then on. Priorities and problems I guess.
Questions? Yes.
1. The new Malvern Star Auto-byke (with the Webb-pattern spring fork and the diamond-shape tank) was announced in October 1946. So how many MSs were registered prior to the end of 1946? There are a fair number of survivors of the rigid-fork, coffin-tank model, so I guess a decent number were made in the second half of 1945 and 1946?
2. How many Junior De Luxe engines in total? If we subtract the answer to (1) from this we get something like the number of Auto-bykes.
3. How many 1Fs in total?
4. Tell all about the Malvern Star / Mobylette! I wonder if there was consideration of assembling the French wonder machine locally. If you let us know the engine number I will ask the museum if theirs is the same bike.
Thanks for the great work - so interesting.
Leon
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Hi Leon
I can’t answer all questions as of yet but will start the ball rolling.
The Malvern /Mobylette card has very little info. The engine number is 65854, it had been registered twice, first time reg number AS 043 but the date of registration was left blank. NEVER seen that before and I’ve now looked at a monumental number of these cards now. The second registration was on 22.10.55 and the number issued was BH 736. For those in other countries with different systems under the Victorian reg system the number plate is only valid while the registration is paid. The number plate reverts to the State if the fee isn’t paid.
Secondly I counted 265 registrations for 1F powered machines. Except for the few blow ins and the solitary 2F powered machines the rest were all fitted with JDL’s.
More info soon.
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In 60 years I have seen one complete MS motorcycle .....and that was a NOS bike in the John Longland collection..........who knows what has happened to it............Some 10 years ago I saw the concours 1914 Triumph he had ..........no longer concours ,but a rusted relic .
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A NOS Malvern Star Auto-byke? I'd be up for it provided it was one of the green frame/cream tank/crimson wheel rim models. Very fetching.
33d6: Fabulous stuff. I have passed the Malvern Star/Mobylette engine number on to the museum and they will have a close look at their machine to ascertain whether it's the same bike, and also review their documentation to see why they state that it was made in Melbourne from French parts. I've asked them to check the frame number: certainly a Malvern Star type frame number (51M etc) would suggest local build. Interesting that "local assembly from a foreign set of parts" is something that drive the local motorcycle industry since before WW1.
Just one more question: what is the rough split on prewar/postwar JDL engine numbers? Just trying to verify Bruce Small's 1941 claim that the company had "about 500" JDL engines "on hand". Given the small wartime production they must have been using them well after the war?
What a lot of interesting things have come from looking into a most uninteresting motorcycle!
Cheers
Leon
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John Longland (or was it Longhurst) was a real estate millionaire on the Gold Coast who had a big collection of early (for 1970) bikes and Rolls Royces ........he would have known Small for sure ............I d long forgotten ,until I saw the Triumph come up on ebay about 10 years ago,as the advert showed a letter from Triumph concerning the bike.,and another about the Pioneer Run from the VMCC.
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I’m away from home at the moment. Will give an unexpected answer in due course.
I did bring the 1945, (15), 1946, (55) and 1947,(76) rego figures with me hoping for an opportunity to give them.
Can’t say much more until I return home.
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So the rigid-fork coffin-tank pre-1947 model were built in relatively small-numbers - maybe 100-150? With 265 2-speeders at the end, looks like most MSs were the "Auto-byke" with the Webb pattern fork. Makes sense.
Leon
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Being engine number cards they are obviously stored in engine number sequence regardless of any prefix, suffix or whatever. I've been going through them trying to make some sense of them and can tell you the following;
The very earliest numbers must be the two prototypes. These are XX694 and XX699. These are 1939 Junior de Luxe numbers. Villiers then seem to have done some tweaking so the XX was replaced with XXA. Supposedly Villiers used this letter engine identifier prefix until until fairly soon postwar when they changed to an entirely numeric system and all engines thereafter have a 3 figure number identifier prefix except they soon ran up to 999 so had to start again adding a letter after the number so ***A, then ***B in due course and so on.
Using this system the post war Malvern Star Junior de Luxe are prefixed either 586 or S586. I've never discovered where the "S" came from but it's there. Just another little Malvern Star/Villiers mystery. Supposedly this is around 1946-47.
Theoretically then we should have a set of XXA engines with lowish numbers followed by a set of postwar 586 engines with rather higher numbers--- except that we don't.
We have instead XXA engines ranging from 16838 to 50032 (highest number listed) found in 6 batches with XXA's generally fading out around 1948 with the 586 engines numbers ranging from 1039 t0 18439 found in 7 batches mainly in the 1947-50 period. Then we have the 716 2 speed 1F engine numbers ranging from 5946 to 29311 found in 4 batches with most in the early 50's.
It does seem that Villiers delivered orders in some sort of drip feed system and that they retained the engine number prefix until that particular order was complete even though it could be quite some time after that specicfic prefix was supposedly done and dusted.
On top of all this we have interstate blow-ins, ex-NSW, ex Qld, plus Leons batch of 'refurbished" machines all with Vic rego dates all over the place.
Of course we don't know how Malvern Star dealt with these engines. Were the engines assembled into bikes in the order that were received or did the assembler just take the next one off the shelf. Trying to nut out how an Australian firm did business when having to rely on overseas supply of major components is enough to make your ears bleed.
Any questions?
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After this write up, everyone will be wanting one !
Dare we mention a FB.
And I have a similar tank for a New Hudson.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffspiccies/4760798382/in/photostream/
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Dare we mention a FB.
No! I have created a soft spot in my heart for Malvern Stars, but the rest... not for me thanks.
33d6: Brilliant. So much info, and particularly interesting about the drip-feeding of engines from Villiers. Hard to interpret, though. Could Bruce Small's assertion to shareholders in December 1941 that there were "about 500" engines "on hand" be true, even if the engines had arrived in batches during 1940-41, even if production was very small until after the war? If so, there would be little correlation between engine dating and machine dating; the latter of course can come easily from the frame number...
The other issue is interstate sales numbers. I have found stuff relating to NSW sales during 1952. In ten months (no figures for Feb or Dec, but they could be found) there were 52 "new registrations" for Malvern Stars, so let's say 60-65 for the year. That's a lot. There were quite a few registered into 1953, and I'd expect sales in SA, WA and Queensland to be reasonably strong also. Perhaps 1500 would be a better guess for total production? No wonder they are around in numbers.
Just the Malvern Star Mobylette story to be sorted, and I reckon I'm done.
Cheers
Leon
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The Malvern /Mobylette card has very little info. The engine number is 65854, it had been registered twice, first time reg number AS 043 but the date of registration was left blank. NEVER seen that before and I’ve now looked at a monumental number of these cards now. The second registration was on 22.10.55 and the number issued was BH 736.
What a pity the first rego date is blank. The engine number 65854 is very early, dating (according to the vast Mobylette community on line) to 1951 (numbers 44526 to 191039), so a build/registration date of 1951-2 would be fine. Can we confirm by estimating a date for the rego number AS 043?
The Malvern Star/Mobylette in the museum in Melbourne is NOT this bike, but has a similar engine number 660**, no doubt from the same batch of engines. Still looking into it, but according to the helpful museum staff the bike looks very much like a pure Mobylette, but with certain Malvern Star features, such as three 6-point stars brazed onto the head lug. It has "M3" stamped on the seat lug, where the frame number (eg 52Mxxxx on their 1952 2-speeder) is stamped. If this were a "Malvern Star" number from 1953 I'd expect it to be 53M. According to the museum acquisition record in 1972, the bike was built in Melbourne using a French engine and parts, but there is no supporting evidence, or even an explanation, of this claim. But I could believe it: maybe a few Mobylettes (let's say three, numbered M1, M2, M3... because I have a vivid imagination) as a trial of local assembly from imported parts - the model on which Australian motorcycle manufacture was based since pre-WW1 days. There were duty/tax benefits for local build.
Note that Bruce Small Ltd was not the Mobylette agent in Melbourne, and I haven't seen any Mobylette advertising in Melbourne before Mayfair Motors gained the agency for Mobylettes (and other Motobecane motorcycles and scooters) early in 1953. My guess is that Bruce Small and Motobecane were investigating whether Mobylettes would be imported complete, or assembled in the factory in South Melbourne. Looks like the former won, unless a study of surviving Mobylettes in Australia reveals more local builds.
Cheers
Leon
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To add to the "Mobylettes built outside France with French parts" story, it turns out this was not uncommon. One of the biggest operations was in Spain, where GAC built Mobylettes under licence from 1951. Seems to fit in well with the idea of Bruce Small doing some trial assembly in Melbourne in 1951, even if quantity production didn't follow.
I wonder who knew in 1951, when engine numbers were 65000-ish, that total production of Mobylettes would reach 14 million by the 1970s.
Leon
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Mobylettes were also built under licence by Raleigh for a while.
Vile things.
The moped with the two-speed Villiers 3K engine (Philips, Norman etc) were far better.
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Yes indeed Rex, but not until 1960 according to what I found. Turkey was another base for Mobylette manufacture.
Leon
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Back to the Melbourne Mobylette. Victoria changed over to alphanumeric number plates in 1951.
In fact the first one, AA 001 was issued to a 1933 MOV Velocette on 17/9/51 so the Mobylette AS 043 is probably late ‘52 or early ‘53. That’s the closest I can get. The changeover from all numeric to the new alphanumeric was erratic as it seems they continued to issue old style plates alongside the new type until stocks were exhausted.
Finally, by this time Bruce Small was moving out of two-wheelers and into real estate. He could see that’s where the big money was. I don’t think his heart was in Mobylettes.
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Thanks. Quite possible that "prototype" Malvern Star/Mobylettes, maybe built in 1951/52, were cleaned out in the era of the "reconditioned in out factory" Auto-bykes in 1952-53. The museum's bike might appear on the registration record as a Mobylette?
I have another entry for weird things: There is a surviving Malvern Star in Victoria - engine number XXA 20610, a "6M..." frame number so 1946 build - that has a very original "Henderson" transfer on the tank. Certainly built in the Bruce Small factory, but I wonder if it was sold new as a Henderson or Malvern Star. The transfer is full size, and right across the tank, so much more than a dealer's transfer on a Malvern Star. The search for a Henderson cycle shop in Victoria has come up with not much - maybe something in Heidelberg. Of course it could have been refinished as a Henderson in a later refurb.
Probably time to move on!
Leon
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XXA 20610 first registered 17/5/46 as a Malvern Star, number plate 3468. Maybe the first owners surname was Henderson?
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Thanks for that - so much knowledge from these records! It's a lovely large-ish Henderson transfer, so I can only assume it was made for the down tube of a Henderson bicycle. Maybe Mr Henderson who had the bike shop in Heidelberg was involved with a renovation at some point. The fact that is was originally registered as a MS means I don't have to worry about it for the book.
Cheers, and thanks again,
Leon
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No aussie made content !
Cute little Sun autocycle on FB
Dunno where the Sunbeam reference comes into it ... (no option to select Sun ?)
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/959836385298085/
Entries elsewhere would suggest this is the full Deluxe model.
You got the extra front suspension AND a fluted engine cover.
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Note the XXA etc engine number (on the rego label).
Caught my eye ...
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Ah yes - I actually came across a real Malvern Star at a "Show and Shine" here in SA a couple of weeks ago, and I had a close look. The first time I have actually examined one close up!
Although it was badged as "1945" it had an 8M frame prefix (on the seat lug), so 1948. The engine number was 586/9150 - the prefix as noted by 33d6 for the postwar Malvern Star models. I had a chat with the owner and the bike was purchased many years ago (say 25) in Queensland, so not sure where it was originally sold. Does it appear on your Victorian list 33d6?
It was very cute, and I enjoyed looking at the detail. Particularly the "low temperature welded" frame. It had been restored from a very original machine.
Cheers
Leon
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No, never registered in Victoria. The nearest number we have is 586/9759.
If the owner got it from Queensland we can only assume it spent its working life up there. I’m assuming it would have been sent up there as a batch in kit form to be assembled on site. It wouldn’t have gone up by road back then and I can’t see Bruce Small being silly enough to entrust assembled machines to three seperate State Railways.
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It had been restored from a very original machine.
Do we spot a tinge of regret uttered there ?
And is that red likely to have been anything like original.
Or owner preference - as is so often the case these days ...
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Certainly lost the patina.
He ought to sort that saddle out too. :o
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Gold ?
Or all bloomin obvious ...
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/vintage-cars-classics-india/44575d1220289614-classic-automobile-books-workshop-manuals-thread-francis-barnet.jpg
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Transport by the railways was the standard up to the 1970s ........I recall as a wee lad going with the truck driver to the Newstead goods yard to pick up stuff from 'the rail'...also recall nearly getting mangled when the wagon we were unloading was hit by a loose shunt wagon and 44gallon drums of detergent concentrate were rolling around inside .......In those days ,to loose shunt a wagon was hit by a loco billiard ball style ,and the shunters had to run along side the wagon with long brake poles and apply the brakes when the wagon was on the track it was directed to......... the couplings were hook and chain ,so shunters had a dangerous job.
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The was no interstate trucking before the mid 50s ,and the well known Hughes and Vale decision which broke the NSW road tax ..........even after the loss ,the NSW Govt wouldnt accept the decision ,and there were several further attempts to impose a road tax.