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Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: Oggers on October 08, 2020, 10:25:15 AM

Title: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Oggers on October 08, 2020, 10:25:15 AM
Gents

66 Bonnie is fitted with a TLS - Twin Leading Shoe. Essentially on application of the brake, the forks judder and there is quite a bit of chatter from the brake knocking against the retaining tab on the offside fork. I have checked the head bearings - no problems there, so I am guessing it is the brake itself somewhere. I have little experience of these things, so some advice as to any adjustments I need to make or what to look for would be most appreciated.   
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: iansoady on October 08, 2020, 10:33:24 AM
Have you set it up properly so that both shoes touch the drum at the same time? It's a bit complicated to explain but essentially you disconnect the linkage between the 2 shoes then apply both fully with a spanner on the spindle nuts. Then you can set up the linkage so that the clevis pins just slide in.

Other faults may be slack in the pivots / cams / wheel spindle fit in the backplate.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Oggers on October 08, 2020, 11:04:54 AM
Ian

No - haven't touched it at all. Was waiting for advice before I do so! Many thanks for the steer though.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: R on October 08, 2020, 10:42:05 PM
1st step with any braking problem is to take the shoes out and eyeball them.
If they are worn/ridged/knackered, there is not much mileage in persisting with them ?
Rusty linings or excessively dusty or grease leakage or out of round are other possibilities.
Hopethishelps.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Oggers on October 09, 2020, 10:09:34 AM
Have since disassembled. Shoes like new, inner surface fine, linkage fine. However, the large recessed hex nut securing backplate was not tight, and as Ian states, pretty sure shoes were not "balanced".
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: iansoady on October 09, 2020, 11:44:19 AM
That slack nut would give you the judder, but obviously you need to get the adjustment right as well.

You do know about leaving the spindle nut slack, putting the brake hard on then tightening the nut to centralise the shoes?
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Rex on October 09, 2020, 01:06:23 PM
Good advice for SLS brakes but as the adjusting rod will likely be adjusted after the spindle nuts are tightened it's not so relevant on TLS.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: iansoady on October 09, 2020, 04:33:28 PM
True, but I'd get the linkage about right then do the centralising then readjust the linkage. A bit of a faff but should get good results.

I have to say I've only had one bike with a 2LS (Triumph unit 500) but it worked very well after tweaking it.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: mini-me on October 09, 2020, 05:23:01 PM
Those Triumph 2LS brakes were among the best; when I worked for the Met Police, [or polis or da feds as is now PC  talk] I had one know it all police rider who always tried to tell me that the front brake lever should not have so much travel, normally we'd set them up so they didn't bite until almost right at the bar. I let him get on with it after he came the heavy, it wasn't long before it threw him off.
$%^
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: TGR90B on October 10, 2020, 08:58:45 AM
I've got one on my T100R. Faultless braking.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Rex on October 10, 2020, 11:36:24 AM
Not only very good but very attractive too. Shame the groupthink of Slumberglade Hall changed the design to the ugly conical hub version. :'(
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Oggers on October 10, 2020, 09:07:50 PM
Where I am at now is as follows

Reassembled with large 31mm or so recessed nut done up tight
Not loosened the spindle nuts
Front spindle arm pulled to brake on position as far as it will go - held with wire 
Link piece fitted to front spindle arm
Rear spindle arm pulled on as far as it will go
Rear of link piece adjusted so clevis pin slides through.
Lock nut done up

Brake fitted up again. Feels far better with the front wheel off the ground, but not been on a run just yet.
 
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: iansoady on October 11, 2020, 11:36:29 AM
Sounds good. Let us know how it performs on the road.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Oggers on October 11, 2020, 12:50:19 PM
Ian

Thanks again for the steer - much appreciated. I am somewhat concerned as the bike has only has 1300 miles after a total resto by the PO. Things like this brake should have been sorted. Only the other week I also had to pull the clutch apart, clean all the plates, dress the splines, adjust the pressure plate as it just was not engaging gear properly. It is fine now, but this is basic stuff. I worry somewhat about what I may find next! Engine should be fine as it went off to a decent builder and it does sound glorious.



 
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Rex on October 11, 2020, 04:46:34 PM
Only 1300 miles since a "total resto"?
Sorry, that's not a "good" recommendation but a worrying one! Poorly adjusted brakes and clutch on something that some one spent a lot of time and/or money on are possibly good indicators that his enthusiasm surpassed his skill levels.
I'd spend a bit of time going over the whole thing carefully if I was you.
Brakes and clutch are pretty basic stuff to get wrong.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Oggers on October 11, 2020, 05:07:55 PM
Rex

That is precisely what I was getting at. Fortunately, engine/box excepted, I cannot think there is much else of serious concern. The 1000 or so miles done by me should have thrown it up by now. Already checked out head bearings, fork oil, chain, rear brake, swing arm - nothing looks to be amiss. Short of partially stripping it. fully even, not sure what else I can usefully do.   
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Rex on October 11, 2020, 06:27:42 PM
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to be critical of your bike in any way, just that when you see some supposedly rebuilt bikes at shows etc and there's very basic and fundamental faults you think that clearly chrome was more important than functionality.
Then when you move on to the various genres of custom bikes and the whole issue of piss-poor engineering is magnified by a factor of ten..at least. ;)
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Oggers on October 11, 2020, 07:22:46 PM
Don't mind crticism - as long as it is constructive. I had inkling the PO was not of our ilk - let us say. Bit more show than go certainly. He had an E-type Jag in his garage which he thought was worth 50% more than what it really was, plus he rode some large vulgar chrome thing rather than the Bonnie. He does seem to have genuinely spent the money on the Bonnie given the parts bill, just not so sure he has put it back together entirely correctly.   
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: iansoady on October 12, 2020, 09:57:13 AM
There are many various ideas about what a total restoration comprises - some people think that a quick waft with a rattle can does the job.

I've never bought a "restored" bike for this reason - for peace of mind I'd need to check it all anyway so might as well start out expecting to.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Rex on October 12, 2020, 10:59:53 AM
I feel the same, plus why should I pay for someone's cheap chroming and poor restoration work?
Aside from that, the restoration is a major part of the enjoyment.
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: iansoady on October 12, 2020, 04:27:23 PM
Yes, in fact often more fun than riding them (not the Norton ES2 of course, but possibly the Fanny-B)
Title: Re: Twin Leading Shoe problem
Post by: Oggers on October 12, 2020, 10:50:43 PM
I do think at some point that I would disassemble the Bonnie to engine and frame, then rebuild as I see fit, though I am not pursuaded the engine and box require attention given the huge rebuild file written by the builder. I am not doing it just yet. I want to actually ride the thing, and to be fair to the PO, the rest of the bike seems - at this point anyways - in reasonable mechanical order.

I too enjoy restoring, but I have a limit. Chrome, rims, exhaust which are a pile of rust is an instant turn off - mainly due to the cost of restoring/replacing them - as is any major issue with the engine or box. Not that much difference price-wise these days between something that requires a huge amount of work and something that is half decent needing only a modest amount of remedial work.