classic motorcycle forum
Motorcycle Discussions => British Bikes => Topic started by: 33d6 on November 02, 2022, 06:06:39 AM
-
I'm still plodding through the old Vic Registration Records and have come across another lot of mystery Villiers engined beasties. It's the usual story of a batch of Villiers 150cc and 125 cc nonentities all labelled as 'New Era' and all registered in either 1936 or 1937. Very much the bottom of the bottom of the market but as you know this just makes the curiousity bone itch even more.
All I can find on 'New Era' (which was very little) predates the above by at least ten years. I can't even find a hint of a whisper of a rumour about mid 30's Villiers powered 'New Era'. You think the Chell was obscure? It's positively lit up with neon lights compared to this lot.
Does anyone know anything?
Cheers,
-
Does it say where (in Vic) they are registered.
This may give a clue. ?
All we need now is some old Aussie advertising (The Age ?)
with someone splashing out on flogging them ...
A quick glance at Trove showed precisely nothing, however.
I swear that gets harder to search every new search engine ...
-
Unfortunately not. We have engine number records only. These are very limited. The main records which contained ownership details, names addresses, etc, were pulped and the only reason we got these secondary records was because they contain no social information. We just console ourselves that what we have is better than nothing at all.
It’s like looking at the TV through a keyhole. You can see a certain amount but it’s just enough to let you know what you’re missing.
Cheers,
-
No, I know absolutely nothing. Or at least I did when I read the posts above. I've had a look and now I can sound like an expert:
Kershaw, Collins & Co. Pty. Ltd., 326 Elizabeth Street, Melbourne, Victoria, advertised in May 1936: "We are agents for New Imperial and New Era Motor Cycles. You can secure a New Era for £5 deposit and 10/ weekly."
I guess if you had New Imperial motorcycles, and wanted something small/two stroke to go along with them, a name like "New Era" would suit. As you say, nothing obvious in the UK.
I'll look further, but please do tell re numbers and power of engines - Villiers presumably?
Leon
-
There were New Era's produced in the UK but that was up until the mid/late 1920s and they were larger four-strokes.
Can't think they were ever big enough to export bikes though.
-
I agree Rex - as 33d6 suggests this will be a local rebrand.
I had a look last evening, but didn't come up with too much. Kershaw, Collins & Co. sold mostly secondhand motorcycles, and their venture as "agents for New Imperial and New Era" was very brief, around May 1936. The date is probably significant: the big firm of Turner Bros., just down the street, "landed" their first shipment of Simplex Villiers motorcycles that month. We know a little about the Simplex http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=5942 , almost certainly an import from one of the British firms branded for the Australian market.
An educated guess would be that Kershaw, Collins got bikes from Turner Bros, and rebranded them New Era to sit alongside their New Imperials. Something didn't work out and Kershaw, Collins quickly went back to dealing in secondhand bikes. The building they were renting at 296 Elizabeth St was sold in March 1936, they advertised New Era in May, but moved to 208-210 Latrobe St by August, where there was no further mention of new bikes.
So 33d6 I'm expecting very small numbers, with specs a subset of Turner Bros' Simplex Villiers offerings?
Not very interesting to some, but worth recording. I usually conjure up a dusty bike in a shed with a barely-readable New Era transfer on the tank, or a photo of grandpa on his first post-depression motorcycle, purchased in May 1936...
Leon
-
... the big firm of Turner Bros., just down the street, "landed" their first shipment of Simplex Villiers motorcycles that month...
Actually "over the road" - in 1936 Turner Bros were at 291 Elizabeth St (the Cottman building in this post 1940 photo http://classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=5942.msg27657#msg27657 ) and Kershaw Collins were at 296 Elizabeth. They moved to Latrobe St in Aug 1936, but were back in Elizabeth St, at no 232, by 1938. Lots of shop-shuffling.
Leon
-
As you say Leon, very small numbers. Three 150 cc Villiers powered bikes all first registered in August or September 1936 and one 125cc Villiers powered bike first registered in July 1937.
The 150cc bikes are all Mk XIIC powered and the 125cc bike is powered by the Villiers 8D. This is the initial offering of the unit construction 3 speed unit before it received its 1939 upgrade to the 9D.
Why Kershaw, Collins & Co thought they needed an economy lightweight alongside their New Imperial agency is a puzzle. New Imps consistent best seller throughout the 1930’s was their 150cc Model 23. Why did they seek out a competitor for their best seller? I’ll have a possible answer when I finish the current tray of cards. After New Era comes New Hudson and then New Imperial. I will then know whether the Model 23 was as popular in Victoria as it was in the UK.
Everything will come clear in the end.
Cheers,
-
So interesting. Thanks.
The list of not very exciting "British" lightweights with Villiers engines sold under local brand names in Australia the 1930s now looks like:
Acme
Barb (autocycle)
B&W
Malvern Star (autocycle)
New Era
Page (said to be Townsville, Queensland - more info needed)
Simplex
Star
Utility
Waratah
I think we decided the Speed cyclemotor was postwar? Any others?
Leon
-
Don’t forget the Essex.
-
OMG, how could I forget the Essex Villiers, "Britain's Supreme Achievement"!?
Acme
Barb (autocycle)
B&W
Essex
Malvern Star (autocycle)
New Era
Page (said to be Townsville, Queensland - more info needed)
Simplex
Star
Utility
Waratah
-
Add SA’s modest contribution, the Elliot Payneham.
What a pity most of the early records are lost. I’m sure QLD an WA also had their mystery brands that we don’t know about.
-
Brands we don't know about? Impossible!
Not. Yep there will be some we don't have yet, although I wonder if NSW isn't where a few fringe brands might turn up? Or perhaps B&W, Acme and Waratah might have provided too-fierce competition.
Re Elliott: my list is for the 1930s. My opinion in Elliott is: "In the early 1930s there was some rebranding – for example the Scott Trivan was advertised as the Elliott Trivan – and some Villiers-powered imports (Elliotts were agents for Sun, and then Wolf lightweights) may have carried the famous Elliott name."
Leon
-
I’m sure QLD an WA also had their mystery brands that we don’t know about.
Like the "Melrose Pup" from Western Australia in 1938?
-
Eggzackerly. I think a Melrose Pup Workman would be an excellent stablemate for my 1939 Montgomery Terrier and 1940 Excelsior Universal. All powered by that same Villiers 125. I can just imagine the sheer envy from admiring visitors.
Wasn’t AubreyMelrose a well known speedway rider?
-
Aubrey Melrose was well-known-everything, including various exploits with Austin Sevens. One article claims he was the first Australian to finish the Isle of Man TT Race.
Re the Melrose Pup Workman: The lightweight 122cc James was advertised in WA as the James Workman, so it's possible that the Melrose Pup was a rebadged James. That said, there were loose Villiers motorcycle engines on offer in the state at the time.
Aubrey registered his bike as a Melrose Pup, so at least one got into circulation.
Leon
-
I just found another four New Era in the micro filmed stuff. This brings their numbers up to a huge total of eight. Three Villiers powered and all first registered in April-May 1936 plus one mystery package first registered on 1/4/40. The engine number isn't clear on that one. I can only decipher what I think is 1108. Pity about that. There's something I find appealing about an obscure wee banger put on the road on the first April Fool's Day of World War. You wouldn't want to be superstitious would you.
Cheers
-
Do we ever find these things - unidentified Villiers-engined bikes that don't quite fit with a British manufacturer? I suppose we've seen their rusty and bent frames at a swap meet somewhere and just shrugged. From the list we've seen survivors from Acme, Malvern Star, Utility (albeit JAP powered) and Waratah, so I guess that's not bad.
Probing a little deeper into the 1930s, I did find a 1935 advert from Elliotts Garage in Adelaide for the "Elliott Villiers Motor Cycle". Just what form it took I don't know (maybe a rebadged Sun product), but it does confirm my thought that Elliotts were offered at times in the 1930s.
Cheers
Leon
Acme
Barb (autocycle)
B&W
Elliott
Essex
Malvern Star (autocycle)
New Era
Page (said to be Townsville, Queensland - more info needed)
Simplex
Star
Utility
Waratah
-
Here's the spec of the Elliott Villiers from January 1935. Does it look like something British?
Leon
Latest 1 1/2 h.p. long-stroke Villiers engine
Large petrol tank
3-speed gears
Down draft carburettor
Immense frame strength
25 x 300 wired-on tyres (called 300-19 these days)
Leg shields
Clean type adjustable handlebars
Twist grips
New improved electric lighting
Large tool bags
Improved fork springing
Low riding position etc. etc.
-
The illustration in the Elliott advert is the same one as used by Wearwell for their 148cc Wolf Vixen. They had legshields on some of their other models http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/Transport/Motorcycles/Wearwell2.htm
Leon
-
No argument there Leon. There seems to have been some sort of trading arrangement with various “back of house” manufacturer’s , Wolf, Diamond, Montgomery, etc, to send out batches of their bikes rebadged to names of the buyers choice. Why this is so is a mystery. Possibly to get around some tariff or customs regulation, who knows. It still happens today to meet Australian content requirements so businesses are familiar with the idea.
The art lies in identifying what name you put on the tank. Restoration is no bother as they’re all from the same song book. It’s the presentation that causes some drama as in the Shannon’s Chell/Acme case.
We all know they’re standard examples of “grey porridge” but they’re also our history so some deserve preservation. Strangely enough they can provide as much fun as the exotica in their own weird way.
-
I forgot to mention the 1940 New Era. Further research shows that it had a 100cc engine but the make remains unknown.
-
I wonder if New Era went down the path of Acme and others and brought out an autocycle for 1940? Or is there a definitive difference in the records between 98 and 100cc?
Leon
-
I really don’t know Leon.
As well as the engine number records I found this 1940 New Era got it’s own special mention in the Vic Police Registration guidelines with the added info it was of 100cc. It would seem reasonable it was an autocycle but motorcycles powered by the 98cc Villiers Midget date from 1931 so had been around well before the first autocycle. So, could be either bike or autocycle.
Whatever it is the engine number records give the number as 1108, the registration guidelines as M1108. Neither number ring any bells.
It remains a mystery to me.