classic motorcycle forum

Worth keeping an eye on the tappet clearance: if it moves more you'd better investigate. If it doesn't move, it's not unusual to see hardened steel caps (think shallow bucket) on top of the valve stems to increase the effective length of the valve. With the rocker arm acting directly on the end of the valve stem it's important that the stem is hard enough to stop it either wearing or mushrooming.

Leon

Is it the remains of the leg shields on the down tube?

Brilliant - very interesting indeed.

I spent last night reading military vehicle forums about the ML James. Incredibly well documented due to the military contracts that governed their production and delivery.

Of interest to us is that MLs were delivered between 1943 and 1945, with frame numbers up to ML8500 - there were contracts to supply 10,000 but the last 1500 were not delivered to the military. ML numbers beyond 8500 ended up (mostly) on the postwar civilian market.

Now here's the interesting bit: All the ML engines (Villiers 9D) were all AAAxxxxA numbers, with xxxxx mostly between about 20000 and about 28000.

The experts there agree about the A suffix on the 9D engines: "Unfortunately records of Villiers 9D engine numbers do not appear to have been retained but it is thought that they were fitted to WD James ML's at random without any particular sequence. The suffix "A" after the engine number was a mark applied by Villiers to signify a post-1939 9D engine with the revised crankcase sealing method (the "gland" seal on the driving side), the "A" signifying "amended"."

They also suggest that, unlike the ML frame numbers, the Villiers engine numbers don't seem to appear in strict order. Nevertheless, the Waratah engine number AAA24024A is right in the middle of the 8000+ engines that went into MLs for the military, do it's likely well into wartime: 1942, 1943 or even 1944?

So, what date for the Waratah?

I've been back and searched wartime newspapers. New Waratah adverts petered out towards the end of 1941 (ignoring Ted Bailey's unchanged long-running advert in "The Propeller" claiming to have New Waratahs on hand), but there was a surprise advert from P&R Williams offering "a few New Waratah Motor Cycles" in December 1942. No mention of the model, but let's guess 9D engines.

The post war, I found an announcement of "limited quantities" of 1945-model Waratahs in September 1945 (all 9D). The "Brand New 1946 Model Waratahs" landed in July 1946.

As I see it, the Waratah for sale could be either a "1942 surprise shipment" landed in December 1942 or a "1945 model" landed in September 1945. I'd guess bikes in both shipments might look pretty prewar, with the "1946 model" having what we call postwar features - new frame, gear change through the tank, etc.

I'll try again for frame number.

Leon

From the auctioneers: " The engine number is AAA24024A was located running vertically down centre of the gearbox. Will add the photo later.
Frame number is not visible, will send a photo of the steering head casting."

What do you think 33d6? Are we very-late-pre-war, wartime, or very-early-post-war? I don't think I'd argue if someone said "1940", but I don't know the significance of the suffix "A" on the already "AAA" engine number.

The flat-back VEC headlamp (Acme progressed bullet shaped VEC headlamps on at least some 1940 models) and the fact that new Waratahs weren't landed until July 1946 (but which time we might expect post war numbers?)... yes just pre war maybe?

Re the frame number, I told them, "The frame number is usually on the left side of the steering head casting." Anywhere else it might be? A photo would be good.

Cheers

Leon

Easily identified as the engine number ran vertically down the rear of the gearbox in the last of the AAA series, AAA****A whereas they then moved to the postwar engine numbering system found on a raised boss on the right hand side gearbox end plate...   

There must be a bit of overlap: here's a "postwar" number running vertically down the back of the gearbox, on a very original postwar Acme, maybe 1947-ish. 351/1287 is a pretty low postwar number, so I assume they were on the back for a while before moving to the end plate of the gb?

Leon

That head has so few fins! Good luck with the start-up.

Leon

Just pre-war or just post-war is often a difficult call. There's a "1914" single cylinder, shaft drive FN current for sale here in South Australia - it's a lovely bike but I strongly suspect it's actually 1920-build. For FN the war was pretty clear cut: Liege was overrun, the FN factory was taken over for German war work and there were no motorcycles made from 1914 until 1920. The first bikes of 1920 were pretty-much 1914 models.

Not sure what happened at Excelsior, but they did manage to build 5000+ Welbikes during the war. The Excelsior/Waratah in question has some pre-war-ish features, like the gear change and the bolt-on rear subframe, but a hint of postwar with the headlamp and (maybe) the front fork. The other well-known Australian bike of the era was the Acme (much more Australian-made than the Waratah), and it used the Sackville pressed-steel fork pre-war and the Webb post-war, so maybe there is an element of that here. Some Acmes for the early war years (1940-ish) used the "modern" "bullet" Villiers headlamp rather than the old "tobacco tin".

So very hard indeed to spot differences between a 1939 model bike and the first bikes delivered in 1946, when getting stuff out the door was more important than adhering to a catalogue specification. The 1946 Waratahs and the 1946 Excelsiors may have differed: if there were left-over pre-war parts in the factory I know where I'd send them! Numbers will give more clues.

Leon

"One other thing he suggested though was taking the 1/8" BSP 28tpi oil union and running a 3/8" BSC 26tpi Die down it."

Please don't.

Re the backlash in the drive train from the crank to the magneto: this sort of thing is pretty typical and doesn't matter too much. Because the engine is driving forwards at all important times, the gears are all stressed in one direction, and this guides how the timing (of valves and magneto) is set. Decent descriptions of how to time an engine will always mention that the engine should be turning forwards.

Leon