classic motorcycle forum

I also know nothing about AMALs, but here are the specs. Columns are: Type, Internal bore, Jet, Throttle valve, Needle position, Float chamber type, Special details

Leon

Very nice. Could I have the frame number please? It is likely on the right side of the seat lug.

Re engine: depends a bit on the frame number. The early version of this frame was usually fitted with the overhead-inlet-valve Fafnir single, thus the very narrow lugs. When Healing gained access to Precision engines, they fitted 500s to this frame using aluminium spaces between the frame lug and the engine plates. Some of Healing's customers - maybe even Healing themselves - fitted the 4 1/4 hp Precision (600cc) to this frame, but to do so the front down tube had to be bent forwards because of the bigger crankcase. It would seem wrong to do this now. If a 600 Precision were fitted to this frame it would have had Precision on the magneto chain case. PRECISION BIG FOUR was a Healing trade name that was only used on the "new" bikes (in new frames) that came out around August 1913.

Anyway, I can guess engine based on frame number, as Fafnir engines in this frame stopped when the new Peerless frame came out in August 1912, but Precisions continued. It's such a nice frame - many have been cut down to lower the seat - that it would be a pity to put the wrong engine in it. Missing petrol tank is Davison and hubs were Chater Lea.

Leon

Thanks 33d6. I suspect that unless you had one of these bikes you'd know nothing about it! Even if the bike was at a rally, I doubt anyone would notice the double rails under the tank. I'm certain the bike is Excelsior, so time to scrape off the glossy powdercoat on the top left of the head lug to look for an Excelsior-style frame number. It will be there.

There is a reason Excelsior had so many frame variations. In the later teens they were bought out by their long-term lug suppliers R. Walker and Son. As well as making and selling bikes, the company carried on making frame lugs and parts for other makers. These parts were often somewhat different from those used in Excelsiors, but are recognisable none-the-less. In the 269 Villiers era, there are a number of Australian bikes (Elliott, for example) that are almost indistinguishable from the 1919 Excelsior Villiers, even though the Excelsior design went off in other directions - wedge tank - at the same time.

It turns out that the gearbox lug used by big Excelsiors from 1921 is one of the more popular gearbox lugs for Australian bikes using the Sturmey Archer CS, and in Adelaide lots of bikes used so many RW&S parts that their parentage in Excelsior is quite obvious. It wouldn't surprise me if many of the parts we associate with AG Healing & Co in Melbourne in fact came - at least originally - from RW&S. I have a few adverts for R Walker & Son frame sets, but I'd dearly love some commercial catalogues!

Jealous about time spent in the State Library - fond memories of the reading room, and librarians bringing crusty volumes from the stacks... amazing place.

Leon

I have a new thought that fits in well with this old thread...

During the week a friend showed me photos of an "unidentified" frame, which the owner sort-of-thought was Excelsior but maybe not. It certainly looks Excelsior, style-wise, but the unusual feature is a "double tube" arrangement to support the tank. I went to my magazines but couldn't find a mention of this feature, which is presumably around 1923-24 since the final drive is by belt. For 1924 there were a couple of barely-mentioned models that are contenders: a 247 Villiers and a 250 (not the long-standing rather boring 293) JAP. My guess is that it is one of these. (Apparently Blackburne engines that came with the bike were clearly too large...)

I found one photo of a surviving Excelsior with a 247 Villiers https://www.carandclassic.com/car/C1468206 and I fancy I can almost see the front end of the "double tube" arrangement under the tank. Tank, fork etc look identical.

Can we verify that the "double tube" is an Excelsior feature? The frame is Excelsior 247 Villiers 1924? A couple of years later the Excelsior Minor (see above) used much the same layout, but with the 147 Villiers and a funny front fork  [edit: but without the double tubes].

Cheers

Leon

You could try Classic Fasteners in Adelaide: https://www.classicfasteners.com.au/

Do you need anything special, or just plain nuts?

Leon

I like the head - viewed from above, the angle of the inlet and exhaust ports look to give a nice swirl.

The "sideways" nature of things does seem weird, particularly for a vertical single cylinder. But there was precedent in the sporting ohv Douglas twins, beginning with the Sports model in 1920, running through the Dirt Track and into the 1930s. Like the Matchless, all very sideways! Even earlier was the racing Matchless ohv V twins in the 1914 (?) TT, which used an unusual MAG (Motosacoche) twin with sideways heads. I wonder if the Matchless designers had one of these engines in mind when they began work on the LR in the early 1920s.

The missing bits - particularly all the top end of the valve gear - is certainly a problem, but it's the sort of thing that lurks in sheds as a curiosity, interesting but useless!

Leon

Brilliant. Enjoy.

Leon