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Messages - JFerg

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31
British Bikes / Re: Warren's Shed
« on: July 30, 2020, 01:56:03 AM »
sorry, those pictures were right way up here!

32
British Bikes / Warren's Shed
« on: July 30, 2020, 01:54:36 AM »
1922 Stanger in original paint, unrestored.  V twin two stroke.  Complete.  Last ridden 1975ish.  Not seized, the engine is free.  Only one other known, in Sammy Miller's museum.  New tyres, a wipe with the oily rag and a quick once over will have it running again.  Now at Shannon's Auctions in Melbourne, for on-line auction starting 11 November.

33
British Bikes / Re: Best & Lloyd mechanical pumps
« on: July 24, 2019, 07:59:12 AM »
The Pilgrim is a far less complex design than the B&L, a very simple worm driven plunger.  Feed from the pump is controlled by a simple screw that limits the plunger travel.  Mine is an early one, with a plain screw and locknut, as opposed the engraved "dial-wheel" and spring loaded detente of later Pilgrims.  Thus there are no markings to guide the degree of operation, as there are on the B&L.  Against that, the Pilgrim has a built-in sight glass.

When I bench run the Pilgrim at the same measured 900rpm on the input, the pump delivers around 65 squirts per minute from the beak.  That remains constant, but as the plunger travel screw is wound in, the duration of each squirt reduces.  As that output volume diminishes, the volume of oil pumped up to the height of the engine oil inlet diminishes, from 105 drops per minute at full plunger travel, down to around 20 drops per minute with the screw fully home.  The limit here is the length of screw thread and thickness of the locknut.  A longer screw would allow greater reduction to the plunger travel.  I'll pull the locking nut out and try again another day, just to see what happens.....

33D6 is/was, as usual, spot on.  This could well drive me nuts for no relevant or useful purpose.


34
British Bikes / Re: Best & Lloyd mechanical pumps
« on: June 30, 2019, 02:48:10 AM »
In order to know exactly what I am dealing with, I've done some measurements.

Set the B&L pump in the lathe, measured 900 rpm.  B&L claim 500ml per hour at 1,000rpm, so I'm expecting 450ml at 900rpm, and 100ml in 15 minutes or so.  The B&L dial is marked in 16 increments between full and off.

With an oil tank mounted at the same height above the pump as it will be on the bike, and a delivery line to the same height as it will be on the bike, 1/4" copper line (B&L are designed for 5/16, but I have 1/4, so am using it) and 50weight oil, this is what happened:

Setting.             Tell-tale.                   Feed rate
100%. #16        out, steady.              32 - 36 drops per minute, approx 100ml in 14 minutes
50%  #8            pulsing 30per min.   36 drops per minute
#7.                    pulsing 30per min.   30 drops per minute
#6.                   pulsing 29 per min.   30 drops per minute
#5.                   pulsing 29 per min.   29 drops per minute
#4.                   pulsing 29 per min.   16 drops per minute
#3                    pulsing 29 per min.    5 drops per minute
                        only about half way
#2.                  pulsing 29 per min.     nothing in 3 minutes
                        only just lifting
#1.                  nothing                      nothing
OFF.                 nothing.                     nothing.

I can see why Philip Brown had his issues.  I will fit a Pilgrim.

35
British Bikes / Re: Best & Lloyd mechanical pumps
« on: June 25, 2019, 07:31:15 AM »
Thanks, all.

Ever Onward is a flat tanker with a hand pump and a drip feed, fed by the Pilgrim, as Leon suggests, but the current project (New Onward) has a saddle tank, so is not conducive to that arrangement.  I want something neater and tidier.  Interestingly, B&S initially made their engines with a B&L mechanical pump, but soon offered a "Mk I" variant which had no oil pump.  At the time, 1923, mechanical or "automatic" oiling was regarded with some suspicion, and an engine without the pump was naturally cheaper.  Finally a "Mk II" appeared, using the later, 200ml, B&L pump.

John K thinks like me.  Problem is that the B&L pump at minimum setting still pumps too much.  My thoughts had turned to machining the plunger to half the area and sleeving the bore, but I'm yet to look seriously at that.  It's a preferred option at the moment, but the B&L pump is a remarkably complex little pig, and I am yet to investigate fully.

33d6's reference to the speed reduction by the Scott technique is interesting.  I will look into that, and will start immediately scrounging for a 3 speed Sturmey Archer bicycle hub to donate the gubbins.

cheers,
JFerg

36
British Bikes / Best & Lloyd mechanical pumps
« on: June 24, 2019, 08:39:35 AM »
I will probably regret raising this, but here goes......

A standard B&L Mk II pump will deliver at maximum 500ml per hour driven at 1000rpm, according to messrs Best and Lloyd.

Whilst this is no big deal with most poppet valve engines of the period, which simply belch the surplus out, it is an issue for the Barr & Stroud engine.  One of the best documented and most widely repeated tales is that of Philip Brown and his 1,000cc B&S V twin engined Brough outfit, who seized the engine one day in Dorset whilst trying to cut back the oil to reduce the smoking.  What happens in the oil-tight B&S engine is that the excess oil builds up in the sump until the flywheels can get it, at which point commences a smoke screen of battleship proportions.  I've had this happen with Ever Onward, which is 500cc B&S powered.  The fix is to stop and drain the sump, which solves the problem, but isn't convenient, ever.  With the B&L set perilously close to off, it still over-oiled terribly.  It now runs a Pilgrim.  I don't have delivery rate data for a Pilgrim, but at around 4 drops per minute, it's fine.

Later Best & Lloyd pumps were designed to deliver only 200ml per hour, driven at 1,000rpm, 40% of the earlier pumps, and a tacit acknowledgement that 500cc per hour is too much.

My current project is 500cc B&S powered, and I have a lovely B&L Mk II pump, with tell-tale that I'd like to use, but I need to reduce the pumping rate to around 40%.

Has anybody gone down this path before?  What did they do?

thanks,
JFerg

37
Identify these bikes! / Re: Barr and Stroud mystery bike
« on: May 11, 2019, 05:22:13 AM »
Response to R's comments re B&S and binoculars.

B&S are a precision optics company; they still exist as a subsidiary of Pilkington Glass.  Their primary business was binoculars, telescopes, periscopes and range-finders.  Come 11 November 1918, this business just ceased, so they looked for other things to do.  The proprietary engine business was booming, so they took a crack at it.

38
Identify these bikes! / Re: Barr and Stroud mystery bike
« on: May 11, 2019, 03:54:24 AM »
And the original mystery bike is a Praga, made in Prague, of course.

39
Identify these bikes! / Re: Barr and Stroud mystery bike
« on: May 11, 2019, 03:52:18 AM »
The GCS of Cardan's photo reputed was once the possession of Harry Beanham..... or at least the photo was!

It's an early 350cc WA6.  The B&S records only reveal four 350's sent to Australia; one to Roy Hill and sons in Adelaide, one to Mair and Co (later McEwan's Hardware) in Melbourne, one to P&R Williams in Sydney (makers of the Waratah), and the last is just a consignment number, so I have no idea where it went.  It was in company with two 500's and a V twin, so probably to an aspiring maker.

However...... Stott's in Fremantle sold B&S engined machines, very likely from "Coventry Bicycles", but always advertised as "B&S".  Registration records suggest that at least a dozen where in use in Perth and environs in period.  Stott and his mate Freddie Hughes took a pair of 350 B&S machines to Brisbane, and rode home via Sydney, Melbourne, and Adelaide without incident.

By my reckoning, B&S made around 1700 motorcycle engines.  1500 of the 350's, 120 of the 500's and around 70 V twins.

Norm Maplestone bought two V twins, and that Mont Albert cycle car is probably one of them.  Despite having a history as a maker (of the "Maple"), I've not been able to find any evidence that Norm built his engines into bikes.

In the car world, Argyll were the only single sleeve valve adherent.  Making an in-line single sleeve valve engine is complex, and Argyll's first solution was a skew gear set up to drive each sleeve.  Single sleeve valve radial engines were a doddle, if an artwork, in comparison to an in-line engine.  The skew gears were replaced in later engines by the "wobble shaft" that john.k refers to.  This was a long shaft not unlike a crankshaft, but the "big end" bearings on the throws was not parallel with the main bearings, imparting a twisting motion as it rises and falls.  Elegant, but a tricky machining exercise.  One exists in Melbourne, and I've ridden in the car; smooth, silent, torquey.

40
Identify these bikes! / Re: Barr and Stroud mystery bike
« on: April 14, 2018, 12:08:43 AM »
You're obviously in Melbourne, John, as are 33d6 and myself.
I have a couple of 500cc B&S engines, one of which is going.  If you're interested, drop me a line johnferguson@iinet.net.au

JFerg

41
Identify these bikes! / Re: Barr and Stroud mystery bike
« on: April 13, 2018, 08:21:34 AM »
There are sleeve valves and sleeve valves.

Knight and Minerva used two sleeves reciprocating with the piston in the middle.  The ports are small, like letterbox slots, and the wear is concentrated. 

B&S, Bristol, Napier and RR used single sleeves where the action is an elliptical path, with large ports, rapid openings, and good spread of lubricant which also spread the wear over a very large area.   The single sleeve aero engines were the most powerful spark ignition engines ever built, rendered obsolete by jet turbines.  Where poppet vale aero engines generally had a 500 hour service life, the single sleeve valve engines had a 1500 hour interval.  If single sleeve valves had anywhere near the gazillions of engineer-hours applied to them that poppet valves have had, there's be a lot more about.

I owe you an apology, Leon.  I've been severely tangled in life and other issues of late, and not had the chance to properly study the extracts you sent me.  I will get there, come May I will have shed a major workload.

Thank you for your Herald research.  As 33d6 suspects, I can postulate the engine number of this machine.  Norm Maplestone bought two B&S V twins.  He also reputedly had a shop in Kew, next to Mont Albert.  Tantalising.

That Czech bike is probably a "Kopra", too.

JFerg

42
"Wee McGregor" was built in the Midlands, and they did use at least one 350cc B&S, Leon.

43
I can add add a fair bit to this list, based on my Barr and Stroud data.

Donaldson & Kelso became Knightswood Motors in Anniesland and built the Royal Scot.  Actually, they built a few.
The Motor Mart in Edinburgh bought two engines, so I assume built two bikes.
New Gerrard, of course.
William Oliver of Jedburgh bought one engine and may have built a single machine.
North British Machine Company in Glasgow bought a few engines.
Collars Ltd in Anniesland bought a couple of engines too.

Wallace bought a few.  Whilst they were more known for agricultural equipment and have no record of producing motorcycles, the few B&S engines discovered in the US were sold through them.

There was also a McKechnie (Edinburgh) entered in the Scottish Six Days in 1922.  Retired on day 6.

Any B&S information, extant engines etc, welcome.

JFerg

44
Identify these bikes! / Re: Barr and Stroud mystery bike
« on: January 14, 2018, 09:44:27 PM »
The gearbox is a crossover type; the input is on the left, output on the right, yet it has a kickstart so is obviously a purpose made motorcycle gearbox.  A Hurth?

The frame has hints of Praga and ABC about it, but only hints, and the centre stand is really unusual for that era.

Looks like an Enfield rear sprocket, hence an Enfield wheel in "backwards".

Headlight arrangement and mounting is quite French of the era.

45
Identify these bikes! / Re: Barr and Stroud mystery bike
« on: January 11, 2018, 08:33:26 AM »
I have the sales records for B&S, and from that have extracted a fairly complete record of engine production.  It's not 100%, however.

Two 500cc engines were sent to Prague.  The photo is of a Czech bike, taken in Czech, so might be the destiny of one engine.....

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