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British Bikes / Re: “Star” motorcycles
« Last post by 33d6 on March 12, 2026, 12:58:30 AM »
Yes, the Villiers industrial side is boring. Their four stroke industrial engines were in response to War Office demands for small engines opening up a new market for them which they kept on with post war. Their motorcycle engines and post war industrial two stroke engines diverged mightily with little in common. The industrial side essentially stayed with 1930's design and technology, basic and cheap but irrelevant for motorcycles..
They bought out both JAP and BSA industrial engines but eventually got caught up in the whole motorcycle industry amalgamation thing when AMC folded. By then Francis Barnett and James were their major motorcycle engine customers, both owned by AMC who also owned Norton. I don't know all the financial shenanigans but the British manufacturing industry was collapsing everywhere which left Villiers no one to supply with their engines. It doesn't matter what you make, if your customers disappear you're dead in the water.
About all the industrial side is good for is as a source of ignition spares and the occasional piston otherwise irrelevant.
 
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British Bikes / Re: “Star” motorcycles
« Last post by cardan on March 11, 2026, 10:20:56 PM »
Now I am NOT going down the "Villiers Inustrial Engines" rabbit hole, but I will admit there is one! As Reg says in his memoir, P&R Williams were a big part of the Australian end of the business, in the 1930s, with a gap for the war, then 1946 into the early 1950s.

I suppose the 98cc Villiers Midget in the Ransome lawnmower is akin to the engine in the 98cc Waratah of the time? On second thoughts, don't answer that!

Leon
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British Bikes / Re: “Star” motorcycles
« Last post by R on March 11, 2026, 08:14:11 PM »
We diverge

https://hughmanningtractormuseum.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Villiers-Mk-10-1960-2-scaled.webp

The Science Museum in London has 2 stroke examples of these.
Likely of British manufacture.
And earlier ?

JAP also got into this market. Bigtime.
Long after the motorcycle side of things faded away.
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British Bikes / Re: “Star” motorcycles
« Last post by R on March 11, 2026, 08:06:17 PM »
Villiers Aust carved out quite a niche for themselves in the small industrial engines market though.
Oddly enough, all 4 strokes !

If ye search on fleabay gumtree marketplace etc, there are whole legions of them.
And especially the instruction booklets, for quite an assortment of models.

I have no idea if the Norton Villiers industrial engines are a carry-on of this, but quite likely ?
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British Bikes / Re: “Star” motorcycles
« Last post by 33d6 on March 11, 2026, 09:04:48 AM »
As you say Leon, interesting reading. I’d hate to be an accountant trying to make sense of all the financial shenanigans in and around the various Williams family members. They all looked out for each other and equitably shared out the proceeds but what a tangle.
I too would like to read the next few pages.
And Reg got his dates a little wrong with the Villiers factory in Ballarat. Was set up in the mid-50’s just in time to greet the Japanese coming into the market. As we know, it didn’t end well for Villiers.
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British Bikes / BSA B31 Timing Inner Cover
« Last post by ramwing7 on March 10, 2026, 04:56:48 PM »
I set out to replace the speedo drive bushing and what seemed to be a simple task suddenly isn't.  It seems as if some goober has totally destroyed the retaining pin that holds it in.
If I remove the inner timing cover will I be able to get to the bushing and replace it?

If the answer to that is yes, the next question is how do you get the thing off?
So far I've only found two screws toward the back that seem to hold it on.  That doesn't seem right.

In the attached pic, what must come off to get this plate off?  My parts manual leads me to believe that the shifting mechanism stays in one piece.  Do I remove all the kickstart mechanism?
My shop manual says refer to a BSA dealer.  Those folks are far and between these days.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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British Bikes / Re: “Star” motorcycles
« Last post by cardan on March 10, 2026, 03:18:23 AM »
33d6 - I sent you the text version of the article by PM.

I love that the Williams boys were "half cousins" with S. L. (Les) Bailey of Douglass: explains a lot!

Leon
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British Bikes / Re: “Star” motorcycles
« Last post by 33d6 on March 10, 2026, 12:38:10 AM »
At least one Villiers powered Star survives (sort of). I saw it for sale at the VVMCC Scoresby Swapmeet a few years back. Supposedly restored it wasn't done well plus the original Mk XII-C engine had been swapped out for an earlier MK VI-C retrieved from an Atco lawnmower. 
I've long since learnt it never goes down well telling a hopeful owner that his exotic and rare early Villiers engine is in fact a rather common lawnmower engine. Yes the MK VI-C was only used in motorcycles for 1923 but it survived for many many years afterwards for lawnmower use. Anyway, a surviving Star with incorrect engine is better than no Star at all. I hope its still around.

I too found the Williams notes fascinating and the Velo remarks do tie in well with Phil Irving's autobiography but reading them was a pain as when expanded the page was too big for my computer screen. Manoeuvring them around to read was a pain and I probably missed a few of the more subtle points. Pity about that. 
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British Bikes / Girls In Your Town - No Selfie - Anonymous Adult Dating
« Last post by expatriot on March 08, 2026, 09:37:29 AM »
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British Bikes / Re: Malvern Star
« Last post by cardan on March 08, 2026, 09:32:29 AM »
Not for me, personally.

Elsewhere in the Malvern Star front, I recently came across two frames that I think might be Malvern Stars from the Tom Finnigan era - pre 1920! The bicycle guys have found that Tom Finnigan used the prefix TF on his bicycle frames, so when there are two surviving motorcycle frames (albeit rather different) with prefix TF1... fair guess that they're Malvern Stars? One frame is very AG Healing (Melbourne), and both frames are Aussie built.

Leon
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