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11
Identify these bikes! / Re: L'il Villiers
« Last post by cardan on July 29, 2026, 09:09:21 AM »
Forget the ISDT, here's the 125 Waratah on the home sporting trial front, prewar.

Leon
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Identify these bikes! / Re: L'il Villiers
« Last post by cardan on July 29, 2026, 07:49:46 AM »
From the auctioneers: " The engine number is AAA24024A was located running vertically down centre of the gearbox. Will add the photo later.
Frame number is not visible, will send a photo of the steering head casting."

What do you think 33d6? Are we very-late-pre-war, wartime, or very-early-post-war? I don't think I'd argue if someone said "1940", but I don't know the significance of the suffix "A" on the already "AAA" engine number.

The flat-back VEC headlamp (Acme progressed bullet shaped VEC headlamps on at least some 1940 models) and the fact that new Waratahs weren't landed until July 1946 (but which time we might expect post war numbers?)... yes just pre war maybe?

Re the frame number, I told them, "The frame number is usually on the left side of the steering head casting." Anywhere else it might be? A photo would be good.

Cheers

Leon
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Identify these bikes! / Re: L'il Villiers
« Last post by 33d6 on July 29, 2026, 07:42:44 AM »
The 8D/9D engine did much better in the ISDT than you think R. The Dutch make Eysink, were the other user besides Excelsior and the record is 1937, three Eysink entered winning two bronze and the other retiring with a frame breakage. 1938 saw one Eysink and the Excelsior entered, both winning bronze. 1939 was the ISDT run on the verge of WWII where the entire British contingent left before the event was over. The Excelsior owner "retired" on the second day but we don't know whether he actually retired or left when told as no one really reported on the activities of private entries. It was all about the official teams. Those representing the country, the Army teams, Club teams and the like, private entries rarely got mentioned much and rarely photographed. Usually they just turn up as background in the odd photo. No Eysink were entered for 1939. Finally Eysink had three 9D  powered entries in the first postwar ISDT and won a Gold and two Silvers.
Not a bad effort all up for a 125cc Villiers.

I look forward to any reply from the auctioneer. It'll make interesting reading.
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Identify these bikes! / Re: L'il Villiers
« Last post by cardan on July 28, 2026, 02:23:00 PM »
Quote from: R on July 28, 2026, 02:55:51 AM
However, the 1939 Excelsior brochure shows high level exhausts as std fittings on the 125cc Universal, 
so you'd expect the Waratah here to be the same ...

I have a pretty poor illustration of a 125cc (8D presumably) Waratah in December 1937 and it certainly has high level pipes like the GO Universal Excelsior.

I've emailed the auctioneer re engine/frame numbers for the Waratah.

Leon
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Identify these bikes! / Re: L'il Villiers
« Last post by R on July 28, 2026, 11:37:45 AM »
Quote from: 33d6 on July 28, 2026, 09:30:49 AM
It had nothing to do with competition,

It never actually occurred to me they might be used for competition.
If someone won a medal in the ISDT, then I'm in awe !!

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Identify these bikes! / Re: L'il Villiers
« Last post by 33d6 on July 28, 2026, 09:30:49 AM »
I think the high pipes with Excelsior was just a matter of making your 9D powered bike look a little different from the rest. So many makers took up the 9D they all tended to look the same so a maker had to do something to stand out. It had nothing to do with competition, Excelsior had the Manxman for that.
 Wolf also fitted high pipes but Wolf never had the same exposure as did Excelsior.
So far I can list Coventry Eagle, Montgomery, Wolf, Excelsior, Carlton, Chell and of course  Francis Barnett and James as making 9D powered bikes without listing the Continental users.

Nevertheless, a private entry 9D powered Excelsior did earn a bronze medal in the 1938 ISDT so they were willing beastie if you pushed.

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Identify these bikes! / Re: L'il Villiers
« Last post by R on July 28, 2026, 02:55:51 AM »
Aye. High pipes was a prewar thing.

If the model you wanted didn't come with them, you could probably order them anyway.
Road trials, of the long distance type were very popular.
And having 'the look" sold very well.
Just watch out for the leg burning potential !

https://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/norton-1939/images/Norton-1939-Trials-Cat-EML.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSz7_Ug88IXC1rM54I8AOpqoBZsFA4uKvPrJxcF8CT6eKAyMSLwdOFkeas9

However, the 1939 Excelsior brochure shows high level exhausts as std fittings on the 125cc Universal, 
so you'd expect the Waratah here to be the same ...

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/emEAAeSwa3VpZTSD/s-l1600.jpg



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Identify these bikes! / Re: L'il Villiers
« Last post by Rex on July 27, 2026, 10:11:04 AM »
A mate has the identical twin, other than his exhausts are standard low-level.
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rockburner on July 27, 2026, 10:11:04 AM »
Quote from: Rex on July 27, 2026, 10:07:14 AM
Looking good though.
Where was the meet?

Thanks! :D With the short-track tank it's a bit of a looker, it's different to most Featherbed specials (Tritons, Norvins) because they almost always use the big Manx tank (or something like it, Lyta etc) for the extra capacity (and almost all of them are silver or bare metal these days).

Down in Selsey, West Sussex, I think it was a bit quiet tbh, propbably because there was a lot of other meets going on along the South Coast (including the bike jumble at Ardingly which is popular)
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British Bikes / Re: Troubleshooting a JAP Special
« Last post by Rex on July 27, 2026, 10:07:14 AM »
Looking good though.
Where was the meet?
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