Help required!

[Ludek]

Hello All, 

Non-biker who needs some help here...

Can anyone identify this bike for me please?

The picture was taken perhaps late 1920's early 1930's.



(Click on the image for larger version)

I've tried to see what's on the tank and I've tried browsing various picture sites without and success so I'm hoping there's an expert here who can put me out of my misery!

Thanks for looking,

Ludek 

[L.A.B.]

The engine appears to be a JAP (J A Prestwich) unit however, JAP engines were used by many different motorcycle manufacturers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JA_Prestwich_Industries

Where was the photo taken (country)?

 

[Ludek]

Hello LAB and thanks for the prompt reply.

I'm not sure exactly where the photo was taken but knowing the family history I would say definitely the UK and probably the south coast somewhere.

The guy on the bike was a bit of a racer in his youth so this may even have been some sort of 'special' that he concocted himself but there is a distinct logo on the tank which for the life of me I can't make out.

It looks a bit like 'Barnett' which led me to think of Francis Barnett so could this be a 175cc JAP powered version which Wikipedia tells me came out around 1929?

It all fits but the logo doesn't look like the pictures I have found and there are some slight design differences...so I'm not sure.

Regards,

Ludek

[L.A.B.]

If nobody here is able to identify it, you could try the VMCC.

http://www.vmcc.net/

[cardan]

Hi Ludek,
Not so easy to identify this one; by far the best bet is the inscription on the tank, and we can't see it on your lo-res photo. If you want the bike identiied, scan the tank part of the photo at the higest res you have on your scanner (600 or 1200 dpi) and let's have a look at the result.
What I can say is that the period is is early 1920s rather than late. Stirrup brakes on the front rim were mostly gone by 1924-5. There may be some merit in your Barnett theory, but the story goes that Barnett used the brand name Invicta (even after FB were underway in the early 1920s), and from what I can see of the inscription it doesn't look to be the usual Francis Barnett style. FB also tended to use Brampton Biflex forks, rather than the Druids on this bike and the nose of their sloping tank is a little different. In the early 1920s there were literally hundreds of small manufacturers building bikes similar to the one in your photo - as I said the inscription on the tank will provide the best clue.
Cheers
Leon

[RichP]

To re-inforce Leon's point about the dating, the 'MF' registrations were a Middlesex series issued May 1923 - July 1924 which would point to a 1923 model year, assuming that the sequence reached 9999 in July 1924.

[Ludek]

This is all very impressive - many thanks to everyone that's contributed.

Firstly, the gent in the picture came from the Middlesex area of London so that ties up nicely - the reason I thought perhaps this picture was on the south coast is that it is among a set taken on a family holiday - although he may well have ridden the bike there!

Secondly my apologies for the standard of the picture. I know many forums have rules on picture sizes so I did limit my first attempt so as not to annoy the administrator!

So here is my next attempt. I've scanned it at 4800dpi and tried to enhance the contrast as much as possible. The problem is with the film stock. I'm scanning from the original negative which is tiny and at this resolution I'm picking up some grain which isn't helping.



Anyway, I hope this helps. (Click to enlarge)

Thanks again,

Ludek 

[cardan]

Good job Ludek - you can almost read it, but not quite. At first read I come up with something like EALECK(!). Underneath the main transfer is the script "JAP" which was often added by makers who used the JAP motor.
Jeff Clew wrote a book called "JAP: The Vintage Years" in which he has listed all the makes he could find that used JAP motors, year by year. There's probably 40-50 makes in the early 1920s, but none seems to match the name on this one. The closest I could come up with is the LeVack - made by Bert LeVack for 1923 only. But even my best imagination can't convert what I can see on the tank into LeVack. Mmm... tricky one.
Leon

[esometisse]

isn't the first letter a "B"?
could it read "BARON" which had a limited production of motorcycles in Birmingham in the early twenties?
they used mostly Villiers and Blackburn engines, though.

Cheers
Andy

[Bomber]

Im sure it begins with a "C"

[esometisse]

What about a Zenith, then?
They were from London, used Jap engines and raced their bikes, too. So that could be a bit of a special.
Doesn't it look similar?

Andy

[L.A.B.]

Blowing up and enhancing the photo appears to show there's something else written over the original name with "JAP" also added below, suggesting it could have been a special?

[Ludek]

Thanks again for all your efforts.

Yes, it's a bit of a puzzler isn't it?

What I have been trying is putting 'uk veteran motorcycle' and then using various permutations of letters and wild cards into Google but so far nothing.

What about the other logo to the left? It looks like a roundel with a scroll over the top and something more straightforward underneath. Any clues there?

Regards,

Ludek