A65 68-70 front hub spindle conundrum, 55 Goldie

[Kennij]

Hi All,
I apologise for these posts. I'm not a BSA man, so I'm in the dark just now.
The bike came fitted with an A65 f/hub, and as I said previously, a spindle which have I discovered on doing a bit of reading, is a 7" brake hub spindle. The B forks l/h thread screw in one.
I tried to take off the A65 brake plate and could not. Backed off the retaining nut and gave it a few bumps with a plastic mallet. Nothing. Heated the plate, WD40, and bumped again . Nothing moved. I could waggle the b/plate a bit on the sleeve.
Came in and looked at Draganfly's exploded views. Then I noticed these hubs were only used for 3 years, and that they have solid "retained in hub" spindles.
So, has this hub had a hollow sleeve to accept the old screw-in spindle made and fitted, to fit B model forks or is there a BSA fitted with what I describe. AND, how do I get the damned b/plate off without damage.
Regards,   Ken

[mini-me]

Lots of mix an match possibilities with BSA.

If you have the nut off, then only the linings can be preventing it being removed.
Can you spin the plate freely? if not , try moving the brake lever which will release the grip of the linings.

Or possibly you could remove all the bearing retainers from the opposite side and knock the shaft through backwards.
Or of course it could be a right lash up and god knows what you have.

Too many bodgers have had these bikes through their hands over the years which is why 'as found'machines fetch a premium.

photos are a help everytime.

[Rex]

I recently removed an early A7 front wheel (or tried to!) and the sod was much the same as you describe. The removable spindle would unscrew from the opposing fork leg, but not pull back out.
In the end I dropped the stanchions down and out of the yokes which left them both "independent" and the brake one lifted off with no problems. The wheel spindle was clearly partially seized in the central spacer portion of the hub, although a dead blow hammer eventually persuaded the whole assembly to come out c/w the near-side bearing.
Plusgas soon had the assembly back to it's component parts.

[Kennij]

Hi    mini-me,
My first thought after first attempt. Shoes stopping removal, used to get that sometimes with car drums and the self-adjusters moving the shoes out into the undercut drum.
No, the shoes seem OK.  B/plate rotates OK. I'll have another go with the 2 leading shoe b/levers tiebar removed,  failing that, I'll make a bearing retainer tool and try something from the other side. Need to make one anyway for the 8" s/s  hub to install a bearing spacer to replace this one.
I was thinking last night, do I actually have a Triumph hub, not a BSA one.

[Kennij]

Rex
Just read your post, no, perhaps I did'nt explain in sufficient detail.
I have the hub, cut out of the rim, on the bench. It has a hollow sleeve in the bearings which the spindle goes thro. I have taken the b/plate retaining nut off, very fine thread, very thin sleeve, and that is as far as I have got. B/plate will not lift off.
 Need it off to take out the sections of spokes left after cutting them. B/plate rim covers them.
As I said in the the initial post, what throws me is it's an A65 hub, or is it a Triumph, and in Dragonfly's exploded views of BSA, they were fitted 68-70 and with a solid, captive spindle, held in the forks by f/clamps. This one was in the forks via, I think, a 7" spindle going thro. the sleeve, and as you say, screwed into the fork leg.
Did Triumph fit that hub, but with a sleeve for the spindle to go thro.
Need to go and do battle again.
Ken.

[mini-me]

not all those threaded spindles are the same,  C12 to A10  look similar so worth checking what bike it was from.

[Kennij]

Hi All,
Well I've cracked the non-removal problem.
Had another look after tea, took off the brake arms just in case, took out a circlip on the other side of the hub. Then put a vise grip, a real US one, on the 10mm or so I could get at on the non-brake side with a fair grip. Put the grip in the vice to stop it turning, heated the b/plate again and poured some lt. oil around the sleeve.
Then I tried unscrewing it. After a couple of mis-starts it started to unscrew. Got if off, and after a bit of mucking about, spotted the problem. This sleeve is 50 thou wall thickness, OR actually 1.25 mm. Checked the thread pitch and dia. Its 1*20mm. The damned thing is metric. The 14mm nuts on the b/levers should have warned me, I just thought they were some mad size. Anyway, tube wall 1.25,  thread depth, a bit over .6, so wall in the threads area .7mm ish.
So when trying to take off the b/plate by hitting the tube nut with the mallet, it compressed and swaged the tube/sleeve in the b/plate because it was so thin. In my defense it was in this state before I started.
So,  I still don't know what the hub came off and I need a new tube/sleeve.  Or a solid spindle. It must be Triumph, maybe, perhaps.
Night all.

[Rex]

If it really is metric it won't be Meriden Triumph.

[mini-me]

won't be BSA either.

You do realise there are less much folk out there who know about old bikes than there are messing about with them?
I reckon10% to 90%

[iansoady]

My bête noir. Along with those horrible "pre-insulated" crimp connections that some people are so fond of using.

[Rex]

Those little blue and red crimps always set the old alarm bells ringing, and, to follow on from Mini-me's comment, most people who use them on old bikes see nothing adverse  in using  them.
But then I've had long discussions (RC/IKBA/etc) with posters who use metric fasteners on old British bikes and see nothing wrong in that, either.
Funny old game..these old bikes.

[mini-me]

over on sickba they'll tell you how metric spanners fit all sorts as well.

Just one other reason I won't log in there.

They use crimp ons because they cannot solder properly.

[TGR90B]

Depends what you want out of the finished product; I suppose. I know Ian's very fond of using M6 gutter bolts and square nuts.

[iansoady]

Somebody might take you seriously........

[Kennij]

Update,
After a bit of a hiatus, I thought I would put an end to speculation about this hub.
What I have is a A65 two-leading 68ish hub with a one-off sleeve, 20mm on the OD, Imp. bore, to fit the metric hub bearings.
The sleeve was bored to accept the A/B 7" hub spindle, thus fitting the said forks. Can't make up my mind, was the sleeve b/plate retainer nut thread cut before boring, sleeve wall about 45 thou thick, or was it cut after, with very fine cuts. I'd go for the former. Anyway, thats what it is.
Not being a BSA/Triumph person, I thought I had some sort of intermediate hub, with the slot to mate with the later fork leg, AND a boss with a stud to accept the earlier leg brake torque stay. And the bearing sleeve to convert, of course. On washing and a closer inspection, the boss had been grafted on, welded (in quotemarks) to built it up, drilled and tapped. I cut and ground it off, and talk about a wing and a prayer. No penetration, just hanging on and no more. Gas, I would think.
Incidentally, some Vincents, 1951 build, during the Korean war, my how the World turns, seem to have heard that name lately, did the same. Bearing shortages, metric bearings, metric to Imp. sleeve. That cost me a few hours one time. Ho Ho.
So puzzle solved.
Regards to all who commented,   Ken.