Author Topic: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes  (Read 8604 times)

Offline Chris B

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« on: June 03, 2009, 01:12:25 AM »
Hi all,

My Dad and I are putting a '67 trophy back on the road.

We got it running yesterday after fitting a new Amal Monobloc Carb, excellent bit of kit set it to factory settings and it fired on the 3rd kick ;D a little bit of tweaking with the idle and it was perfect. Allthough it did back fire through the carb a couple of times when starting it is this a problem?

Anyway the main thing is the brakes they are shockingly bad, maybe it's me. My oldest bike is a 2002 Yamaha TDM with R1 brakes that stops on a dime the same as my Hinkley Triumph (Speed Four).

What is the best way for getting the brakes at there best I'm not after supersport brakes but I wouldn't mind being able to go out for a ride and stop without thinking it would be better if I just put my feet on the floor. I don;t want a disc brake front end as I think that would spoil the look of it.

I'm just after advice for how I should get the best out of what is there.

Anyway here are some pics and I vid on me riding (and stalling) it.

I really enjoy it it is a real challenge to ride.



Forgive how I look in the video I had just woken up after a rather heavy night out. :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKEAYjqItZw


Offline Blue

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 03:21:59 PM »
The front brake fitted to your bike is the post-1971 'conical-hub' type and is generally held in disdain.  There is a lot of talk about these brakes regarding why they don't perform very well, ranging from the insufficient length of the cam-levers, the cable (rather than rod) coupling between the cams, to the theory that they were designed for hydraulic use.
For whatever reason, most people find them less-than-effective and either fit an earlier (1968-70) pattern brake or a disc, both of which are fairly easy come by but they need different fork sliders - the earlier brake takes cast-iron type whereas both the conical hub and disc require the four-stud alloy sliders.
However, that said, with careful assembly and setting up the conical hubs can be quite an adequate stopper.  The process I followed on mine was:  
1) Make sure the drum liner has been accurately trued up, especially if you've re-laced the wheel at any point (the alloy hubs easily distort).
2) Use new bonded-on brake-shoe linings, preferably a soft, easily warmed compound, and make sure there is very little play between the shoe and the liner.  
3) Use a new teflon-lined heavy gauge brake cable.  
Basically you want to make the brake as brand new so that any adjustment is kept to a minimum, and you want to only have to move the lever a matter of millimetres before the brake engages.  In this way I've found the conical quite a reasonable brake.  Not as good as the 1968 pattern (in my experience anyway), but much better than most reviews would suggest.
Alternatively a friend of mine converted his conical hub to hydraulic operation using a master cylinder from a Triumph motorcar with great effect.  I couldn't tell you how he'd done it, but it proves it can be done if need be.

You have a very fine looking Trumpy there.  I could pick holes of course like the purist I am, hahaha, but I won't because it's always nice to see another Meriden twin on the road.

Good Luck

Offline Chris B

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 08:37:34 PM »
Thanks for the responce, I had heard the 1968 twin lead shoe was the best I think there is one on ebay at the minute. I'm sure there is plenty not original on the bike but this is a bike for riding and enjoying not a concourse machine. My dad choose the monobloc beacaue it would be easy to set up and make running and starting easier. I guess we will have a go at setting this up and maybe buy 1968 drum if it goes for cheap enough.

Offline L.A.B.

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1529
  • Karma: +32/-4
    • View Profile
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2009, 10:04:40 PM »
As Blue has said, if the brake is set up correctly it can be made to work reasonably well.

Fitting extended brake arms helps.

http://www.themuttznutz.com/

« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 10:05:35 PM by L.A.B. »
L.A.B.

Offline Chris B

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 04:33:08 AM »
Could you explain the extended brake arms please and where to get them, I'm not very up on drum brakes or any bikes pre 1985 really ;D

Edit: I've just realised this bike is twice as old as me ;D
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 04:33:47 AM by chris-red »

Offline L.A.B.

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1529
  • Karma: +32/-4
    • View Profile
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 06:22:22 AM »
Quote
Could you explain the extended brake arms please and where to get them,

The brake arms are levers. As with all levers, the longer the lever, the more force you are able to apply, in this case, to the brake shoes.

I did post a link in my previous message where you could buy them (Muttz Nutz).
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 06:26:20 AM by L.A.B. »
L.A.B.

Offline Chris B

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2009, 04:35:45 AM »
Quote
Quote
Could you explain the extended brake arms please and where to get them,

The brake arms are levers. As with all levers, the longer the lever, the more force you are able to apply, in this case, to the brake shoes.

I did post a link in my previous message where you could buy them (Muttz Nutz).

Ah gocha, I did see that but throught it was signature for some reason.

Are those brake arms really worth it? they seem alot of money for 2 levers, washers and bolts.

Oh and she was MoT'd yesturday 8-)

I managed to get some halycon goggles and an open faced lid, I'm going to pose about on it later ;D

Offline Rex

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1512
  • Karma: +11/-69
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2009, 09:23:13 PM »


Are those brake arms really worth it? they seem alot of money for 2 levers, washers and bolts.
Indeed they are, but if you follow the manual instructions re set up and adjustment of this brake, plus you use a good quality cable and shoes, this brake is quite good.
Not quite a six-pot Nissin, but good enough for most riders (and that includes me... ;) )

Offline L.A.B.

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1529
  • Karma: +32/-4
    • View Profile
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2009, 11:26:10 AM »
Quote
Are those brake arms really worth it? they seem alot of money for 2 levers, washers and bolts.

If they help to stop you running into things, then they've got to be worth it I would have thought, and owners have modified their own levers by cutting and extending them, but I wouldn't try that unless you know exactly what you are doing!

An extra hevy duty (Venhill?) cable, brake shoes with better lining material and careful adjustment of the shoes using the adjusters (hidden behind the rubber grommet) could all improve the performance of the brake?

I've no personal experience of the conical (or 'comical'?) hub front brake, but I've heard other owners say it can be made to work well, if it is set up correctly.    
  

« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 11:32:07 AM by L.A.B. »
L.A.B.

Offline Goldie

  • Advanced Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: 1967 Triumph Trophy Brakes
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2009, 05:25:52 PM »
I raced a 500 Triumph Hill Climber with conical twin leading shoe front brake, and it was really good.
Maybe because it was set up correctly by the previous owner, and i never touched it