Need help to identify this engine

[oldbritbike]

Hello,

I just bought this engine few weeks ago. The seller said it was JAP engine that put on one of Sunbeam motorcycle model.

But after I tried to search any info/pictures from all over the websites that discuss about JAP or Sunbeam, I never could find information that explain about my engine.

So, could you help me to identify this engine? Btw, the seller said it was from 1930's era.

Will appreciated for all information/ source. Thanks before 

[R]

What a pretty little engine !
It does say JAP on the drive side crankcase ?

Firstly, JAP mostly used a fairly complex series of letters to identify their engines, and any special features. If you can find a (possibly long) series of letters anywhere there, it should go a long way to identifying it. If it has numbers, they will give an indication of year.

2ndly, looks 1920s, more later 20s. Someone has done a lot of work fitting quite a sophisticated looking oilpump, and presumeably oiling system. Subeam engines usually had a Sunbeam badge inset into the timing cover itself ?

That Amal sidefloat carb looks decidely later. Likely to be quite a good performer because of it...

See where we go with the numbers/letters to give a year ??
JAP supplied literally dozens of manufacturers with engines, so pinning down a precise make it was fitted to may sometimes be somewhat problematical.
Cheers.

[R]

P.S. That sparkplug location looks decidedly unusual.
May help to identify things...

[oldbritbike]

What a pretty little engine !
It does say JAP on the drive side crankcase ?

Firstly, JAP mostly used a fairly complex series of letters to identify their engines, and any special features. If you can find a (possibly long) series of letters anywhere there, it should go a long way to identifying it. If it has numbers, they will give an indication of year.

2ndly, looks 1920s, more later 20s. Someone has done a lot of work fitting quite a sophisticated looking oilpump, and presumeably oiling system. Subeam engines usually had a Sunbeam badge inset into the timing cover itself ?

That Amal sidefloat carb looks decidely later. Likely to be quite a good performer because of it...

See where we go with the numbers/letters to give a year ??
JAP supplied literally dozens of manufacturers with engines, so pinning down a precise make it was fitted to may sometimes be somewhat problematical.
Cheers.

thanks for your explanation R.

please see the attachment for the serial number, but as far as I knew about JAP engine number, the number that pun on my engine it's not like a normal JAP engine number. That's why I'm a little bit confuse about this engine. here's the engine number.

if you see the attachment...on the left side there was a number: 4090D, and after that continued with a "engine number" like this one UCS4114188. Is that explain something...

And agreed about the sunbeam, they always put their logo on the timing cover or the SUNBEAM name it self on the left crankcase

I hope I can find some pictures that I can use as reference when I start to rebuild my old bike

Best Regards

[oldbritbike]

i forgot to attached the engine number. sorry

[cardan]

Possibly a Blackburne from the later 1920s - say 1927-ish?

A bit like this one http://www.classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=4048.0 but larger. Have you measured the bore and stroke?

Leon

[oldbritbike]

Possibly a Blackburne from the later 1920s - say 1927-ish?

A bit like this one http://www.classicmotorcycleforum.com/index.php?topic=4048.0 but larger. Have you measured the bore and stroke?

Leon

No not yet. I still dont have time to do anything with the machine.

That's why. When I'm in the office I try to seek any info as much as i can


Oh. N thanks for ur respond. I appreciated. Hopefully I can find a usefull information from ur link..

[chaterlea25]

Hi,
UC is a JAP engine prefix, 600cc
It looks as if this number has been added to your crankcase by someone
I have seen a JAP engine with that position for the sparkplug, on a V twin though
Blackburne usually have their name prominently on the crankcase, not seen one without, unless you count the "Dennis" lawnmower engine copy 
It looks to me as though the timing case and oil pump have been "home additions??? certainly on the "Sunbeam " style
I would lif the cylinder and look for a part number or name on the conrod
HTH
John

[oldbritbike]

Hi,
UC is a JAP engine prefix, 600cc
It looks as if this number has been added to your crankcase by someone
I have seen a JAP engine with that position for the sparkplug, on a V twin though
Blackburne usually have their name prominently on the crankcase, not seen one without, unless you count the "Dennis" lawnmower engine copy 
It looks to me as though the timing case and oil pump have been "home additions??? certainly on the "Sunbeam " style
I would lif the cylinder and look for a part number or name on the conrod
HTH
John

I was found (probably) information about this engine on cybermotorcyle. There was a pictures that shown a Jap engine like mine (i hope).

You can take a look at this link http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/jap/JAP_1915c_engine_1.htm.

Just wish me luck i will get a little information. At least i can answer to someone who ask about my engine when i finished my project...hehehehehehe....


But i'm still waiting for details info if someone here have an accurate info/ specification...

[cardan]

I hate to disappoint, but the "1915 JAP" motor on cybermotorcycle is not a 1915 JAP - trust me on this one. JAP motors had fins across the head (rather than fore-and-aft as seen on your motor and the one you link to) until c1921, and most had an oil box underneath the timing chest.

Leon

[oldbritbike]

I hate to disappoint, but the "1915 JAP" motor on cybermotorcycle is not a 1915 JAP - trust me on this one. JAP motors had fins across the head (rather than fore-and-aft as seen on your motor and the one you link to) until c1921, and most had an oil box underneath the timing chest.

Leon

Thanks for your info.

So, do you know what it is? Or you have a manual book or any kind of links that can explain about this kind of engine?

I hope you can help me further...because I still didn't have time to disassemble that engine. That's why I think before I start to disassemble it, I try to search information as much as I can about it.

Regards
Hartawan

 

thank you.

[33d6]

I think this is a late 20's 488cc Model D Royal Enfield engine. Probably 1929.

In the late 20's Royal Enfield often stamped the Model Number as a suffix after the actual engine number. They also fitted the spark plug in the position shown. The number 4090 is also fairly late in the series. I  think the smaller UC numbers are a later addition.

 In 1930 RE adopted dry sump lubrication using an entirely different crankcase with a built in oil tank but as 1930 was the changeover year their advertising implied some of the old style models were still available so this could be from 1930. Whatever the case, its still an engine from the vintage era and something you can have fun with.

Cheers,

[oldbritbike]

I think this is a late 20's 488cc Model D Royal Enfield engine. Probably 1929.

In the late 20's Royal Enfield often stamped the Model Number as a suffix after the actual engine number. They also fitted the spark plug in the position shown. The number 4090 is also fairly late in the series. I  think the smaller UC numbers are a later addition.

 In 1930 RE adopted dry sump lubrication using an entirely different crankcase with a built in oil tank but as 1930 was the changeover year their advertising implied some of the old style models were still available so this could be from 1930. Whatever the case, its still an engine from the vintage era and something you can have fun with.

Cheers,

Wow....you are right, and thanks for your info. I'm so grateful with this...finally I can have a reference when I start to rebuild it.

After I try to search on google based on your info, yes the engine was used on 1929, 488cc Model D Royal Enfield motorcycle.

I'm so happy when I look carefully some pictures on this link: http://portfotolio.net/motosanglaises/album/72157622446906399?page=5

Thanks and cheers....
hartawan

[33d6]

Glad to have been of assistance. Like many of us I always aimed at having a flash OHV vintage sports bike but could only ever afford the everyday sidevalve models. Finally I got the message that getting a sidevalve to run nicely is just as much fun so I play with either ancient sidevalve or ancient two-stroke nowadays.

The part that really interested me on your engine is the replacement oil pump along with the sight glass and feed control screw down on the crankcase. These show a degree of workmanship I admire and I'd like to see the internals. I suspect a rotary pump in the P&M Panther style. Could you put up a photo with the the outer cover off to show the internals?

Many people don't like the Pilgrim pump it replaces as the Pilgrim is the subject of many an urban myth but personally I have no bother with them now I know them.

Cheers,

[oldbritbike]

Glad to have been of assistance. Like many of us I always aimed at having a flash OHV vintage sports bike but could only ever afford the everyday sidevalve models. Finally I got the message that getting a sidevalve to run nicely is just as much fun so I play with either ancient sidevalve or ancient two-stroke nowadays.

The part that really interested me on your engine is the replacement oil pump along with the sight glass and feed control screw down on the crankcase. These show a degree of workmanship I admire and I'd like to see the internals. I suspect a rotary pump in the P&M Panther style. Could you put up a photo with the the outer cover off to show the internals?

Many people don't like the Pilgrim pump it replaces as the Pilgrim is the subject of many an urban myth but personally I have no bother with them now I know them.

Cheers,

Sorry, for made u keep waiting. I've been so busy these days....that's why I could not reply you fast. I will take picture the oil pump tonight.

Thanks for your help. I hope we can keep contact....