Painting, why it works and why it fails when it should work!

[Kiwi]

Hi all

I have just joined this forum recently and I have had brilliant support from forum members so would like to offer something back to members should they feel the need to ask.

I am re-building a 1961 Dominator model 88 and as part of the process I am going to re-paint it, as it happens I am in the abrasive blasting and painting game and have been for the better part of my life so I am confident in what I want and how to achieve it.

I have noticed looking at other forums that there seem to be a lot of people who would benefit from some basics when it comes to preparing and painting frames and parts, I realise that many can just send their work out and pay what ever the asking is but I am sure many want to do their own painting and have the basic skills to do so.

So often after many hours of preparation and lovingly painting your project you put it all back together only to find faults appearing in your paint job after a year or so, this is one of the worst detractors from value of your machine and leaves you with the prospect of stripping the whole thing again just to paint or powder coat because you are sick of paint!

Unfortunately powder coat can have its drawbacks too!

Both paint and powder coating are sound options for restoring your machine provided they are applied correctly.

All to often the paint or powder coating is blamed for being faulty or "not like it used to be" but the real fact is preparation, environment, cleaning, mixing, application, film build, air supply, paint choice, moisture and contamination are 99% of the problems causing premature paint or powder coat failures.

There are shortcuts taken even by professionals that will come back to haunt you but there are ways to identify some of these, also some knowledge will help you ask for the right process when you do go to a professional company.

If anyone has a query or is seeking a solution to a problem with paint please just ask and I will endevour to assist, I am happy to give step by step suggestions and procedures to follow as well as technical information if needed.

I am based in Australia so some of the the product brands will not be known to me but the basics of paint are pretty much the same the world over.

Regards

Kiwi   



   

[Stephen Foster]

Thanks or taking the time with this ..I for one am very keen to hear Your advice as I have 2 B.S.A s I wish to restore in the near future & painting has always been a mystery to Me !

Regards,
Steve ..

[Kiwi]

Hi Stephen

I have not been able to get into the forum for a few days as it has been down at least in my part of the world anyway!

I am going to post some paint basics 101 soon but if you have any specific questions I can help with in the mean time please just ask, I am mostly able to reply in about 24 hours so don't mix your paint and then ask me a question!!

Cheers

Kiwi

[Stephen Foster]

LOL !! Thanks in advance ..I will find this very helpful .

Steve ..

[Kiwi]

I Have have attached an explanation of corrosion types, it is an edited version of a freely available document and explains technically the basics of corrosion, I have removed some industrial and non applicable elements to save space, we are only looking to paint motorcycle components after all!.

I do intend to give simple workshop minded explanations and handy tips for painting but I thought this paper would help people to grasp the reasons for being particular about preparation of their components and why a good looking paint system can still fail.

Once you understand how contamination affects your work and how corrosion does its work the painting part is more easily understood, the procedures for preparation and painting make sense and the end results will be long lasting. 

Good luck!

[Kiwi]

Hi all

I have attached the first part of basic spraying knowledge to follow on from my corrosion document, I have made it basic for the new user and will move on to preparation techniques and the causes of bad paint work next, I do invite any questions on specific problems anyone encounters so I don't need to re-write painting history.

There are lots of issues with the use of spray cans, powder coating, mixing, thinning, incompatible old coatings with new and the like that I can shed light on.

The intensity of the information I will post will correspond with replies and questions I get as people may not feel the need to have help in this area.

Lastly beware YouTube advice from what I have seen there a few good examples and most are posting self taught practices that can be misleading.

Cheers to all

Kiwi 

[Kiwi]

Hi all

I have attached the first part of basic spraying knowledge to follow on from my corrosion document, I have made it basic for the new user and will move on to preparation techniques and the causes of bad paint work next, I do invite any questions on specific problems anyone encounters so I don't need to re-write painting history.

There are lots of issues with the use of spray cans, powder coating, mixing, thinning, incompatible old coatings with new and the like that I can shed light on.

The intensity of the information I will post will correspond with replies and questions I get as people may not feel the need to have help in this area.

Lastly beware YouTube advice from what I have seen there are few good examples and most are posting self taught practices that can be misleading.

Cheers to all

Kiwi 

[Kiwi]

Well just as I was criticising YouTube! I found an excellent tutorial for beginners and a few self proclaimed experts! It is based around what I have just written, it is well worth the viewing, I do note the gun being shown is a high end gun but the presenter is a professional and refers to his own notes, I rate his advice highly.

http://youtu.be/U-acl0BNGWk

[Kiwi]

Hi all

I have attached a brief description of preparation and painting to follow up on the first two, hopefully read in conjunction with each other they will shed some light for some people out there.

Paint discussion and argument can be as drawn out as arguing the toss over who makes the best bike so I will stop here for now.

I don't plan to post anything more until asked a question, so best of luck and I hope this has been of some help to someone.

Regards

Kiwi

[normk]

Hi Kiwi,
      obviously you frightened everybody off, so I'll ask what paint are you using 2pak?

[Kiwi]

Hi Normk

Yes I was beginning to wonder if I had said something wrong!

I am using a marine sanding epoxy primer, basically a two pack primer that has a lot of talc in it so it is easily sand-able for about 72 hours before it gets real hard. Then I am using a two pack urethane top coat which is equivalent to 2K (2K is a solvent based acrylic enamel) I like the urethane because in my experience it has more give with stone chipping, but they are both good products.

The top coat is going to be black from a special ultra deep base, the pigment settles to jet black with the first application and then I apply a clear coat of the same product. It is a Spies Hecker product, some might call it a base coat but it is a two pack.

Most blacks these days are not that black if that makes sense.

Thanks for asking!

[normk]

 Hi Kiwi,
      You are obviously only talking about frame painting at this stage not tanks and bodywork?
     

[Kiwi]

That is what I was basing it on yes, but actually not necessarily just frames,

The same epoxy system is brilliant for faring and filling bike tanks, guards and cars, however I would not use it on plastics. if you have done panel  repairs the marine epoxy will give great high build filling properties, cure right through and still allow a big preparation window before painting.

The fact is there are a lot of so called non automotive products out there that are advertised for marine and other industry which are simply not recognised as typical automotive types by the general public, but can be superior for tougher jobs and smaller components, mainly due to their design for ease of working with for massive surfaces like boats by allowing for more working flexibility.

Specific sanding epoxies can be outstanding for boarding and filling with the added benefit of solid curing right through down to 12 degrees C. Solvent based epoxies and urethane's will cure despite the lack of a heated booth too, (within reason and spec sheets that is). Water borne products are best left for manufacturers and experienced professionals at this stage in my view. Low VOC Solvent based paints still comply with most environmental regulations in most countries especially used in small amounts. 

Cheers

Kiwi