Alloy tanks & the tricky bits!

[Sub.sonic]

Hello all,
            i would like to address/ discuss the diminishing quality of sheet metal assemblies, both abroad and within the uk. Im sure you all see the obvious lack of skills being passed down by the older generation that are slowly dying out. To compensate for the void of skilled British craftsmanship, classic & vintage vehicle owners are turning more and more to the Far East. In the majority of instances at a compromise to quality. In an attempt to try and restore some of the balance, I would like to offer over 65 years combined father and son tin bashing expertise, both from an aerospace background and will tackle pretty much anything.j
I've attached pictures of some previous work and the latest BSA tank we made.
If anyone needs any advice or something knocking up, don't hesitate to ask. We're reasonable chaps. Ill upload norton featherbed & greeves fuel and oil tank pictures if anyone's interested.
Cheers,
Alex.

[Rex]

Nice work. Anything but use the Indian-made cobblers for sale on Ebay etc, so best of luck.
Incidentally I don't think there's a "void" of British craftsmanship really. It's just that riders/bikers/restorers being cheap-skates would rather pay 200 quid for shiny tat than 300 quid for quality. Sadly.

[wetdog]

i agree rex and the work look very good , i think the problem is as you say price , but i have found the differance to be more like £200 indian etc or £1000 plus for english and a very very long wait , one off jobs will always be expensive but still recomend useing english where ever you can as if there is a problem you can always take it back .

[Sub.sonic]

Cheers boys, the tank making just happened about 6 months ago. The old man did a goldstar clubman tank for a friend and I think he enjoyed It. he went bonkers and started making as many as he could using the most accurate tank he could borrow to copy! I think the key is not getting too involved with the tooling for a low run of parts. If you can make a few fly press tools to last say 20 - 30 base plates and you work quickly. You could do Norton's for a little over half that.  I've seen a fair few of those Indian tanks in the same place and there all over the shop! You actually get some proper service dealing in this country. special requests/ odd frames are bang on If you can meet the maker and see the bike.
The skill is disappearing. The methods that aren't down on paper just disappear if they dont get taught. How many apprentice sheet metal workers do you know that how to use a wheel and develop patterns? compared to the 50's there's none.

[wetdog]

how very true , which part of the uk are you ? how much to make a trials Ariel tank Ridgid , its a four bolt fixing thro the tank , not centre fix type , i have one for a pattern thanks P message me if you like

[Rex]

I'd be interested in a typical ball-park figure for a tank too.

[bikerbob]

Agree with what you say sub.sonic, I served my time as a sheet metal worker from 1958 -1963 and was fortunate to be taken on by a small company that gave me a good grounding in all aspects of sheet metal work using lots of different sheet metals. I left that company in 1964 and went on to a huge multinational company and stayed there until I retired. It is true that a lot of the old skills are being lost not just in sheet metal work I noticed in my time at work that most companies would train apprentices in the skills that were required for that company so that what you have now is people that are highly skilled in a particular field but do not have all round skills, sign of the times. Excellent work that you have turned out can admire the work that has gone into making those items but sadly you are competing with the Indian sub continent with their cheap labour, I did buy a tank made by them from a UK supplier, at first glance I was quite pleased with the tank the chrome was of a good standard the tank was perfect fit for the bike matched perfectly with the original but it had the pear shaped badges and while the recess for the badges was okay the fixing hole did not align with the badges and you cannot alter either, also when I looked inside the tank it had been painted with some kind of red primer paint. On inspection with a torch you could clearly see that this was done to hide some very bad pitting of the metal, I sent the tank back and received a full refund and apology from the UK supplier. On checking with other sites those Indian made tanks or quite a hit and miss thing some people are getting really good tanks and others quite bad ones with a variety of problems.

[wetdog]

it is hit and miss like you say , but has anyone tryed to send one back ? with reguards to old trades i think the powers that be broke down the skills required (de skilled) and did away with apprentice /journy men etc as high tech moved in , its a real shame as when they had finished to may skills had gone or where down to pushing a button , but the cost of that button , i know only from the NGA print angle but see other industrys suffer the same . Why change a coal fire power station to wood chips which are then imported from the US ? sorry i think ive gone off on one again .

A mechanic goes to the doctor with a heart condition , and whilst there remarks on how alike there jobs are ,
" i work on the heart of an engine rebuilding it from the crank up " he says
the doctor agrees and then says
" try doing it with the engine running "

[bikerbob]

Wetdog. As I said I bought mine off avery reputable Uk BSA supplier C&D Auotos whom I have dealt with before and had very good service from. I did speak to them first by telephone about the quality of the tanks from India they informed me that it was not possible for them to check every tank that they imported but they did however select at random a tank from each batch and try it on a dummy BSA tank to check the fit and quality. I can see why they cannot check every tank  because when mine arrived it was in a large box and on opening there was a large amount of protective packaging, also the tank itself is coated in some kind of red grease, quite alot then wrapped in clingflim to protect the chrome from scuffing in transit. It took quite some time to clean it all off and then you can check for problems. Now when I rang and complained they were very apologetic and arranged for the tank to be picked up the next day by Parcel Force who duly arrived and as I said I received a Full refund including postage. I did contact another seller on ebay who said he would be happy to refund if there were any problems but only for the cost of the tank not postage. I think that if you bought direct from India you would have much the same problem ie postage bearing in mind that they charge you £60 for postage so it could cost you in all about £120 if you were to return a faulty tank to India.

[wetdog]

i know C&Ds from when there farther was still alive at the shop in acocks green , they are now out by studley on a farm and the service is excellent and i would recomend them to anyone , they do not sell indian tanks any more as they had to many complaints        ( they wont sell anti wet sumping valves either but have been asked to do so ) but thats another topic , i have seen B31/33 small badge tanks alterd to RGS spec and if i needed one i think this is the way i would go , im sure this company could do this looking at there work , if not Bob Johnson can , another old school tin man working from home in weoly castle birmingham

[Bomber]

I've bought two direct from India, a Goldstar chrome tank and a ES2 plunger chrome tank. Both have been perfect... maybe I got lucky, I don't know. Both were of slightly thicker gauge metal than the originals and both were chromed to perfection. Inside the tank was bare metal with no sign of corrosion, badges fitted perfectly as did filler caps and petcocks.

C & D Autos has been going for years and I can remember buying Bantam stuff from them around 1970... great firm! as are Gaggs in Nottingham, equally good for Beesa stuff and also other makes. I actually bought an old stock off the shelf 1930 BSA 500 sloper inlet valve... original part from Gaggs 5 years ago!

[Sub.sonic]

Biker bob, blokes like you are a dying breed and I admire you most. I'm currently training the latest rolls royce welding apprentices. The lack of interest in the subject is demoralising. The are more interested in social media and trivial bull shit. A sign of the times as mentioned before.

We can create / alter anything the customer so desires. We are between Nottinghamshire and derbyshire and don't mind meeting half way. Runs of multiple amounts will be considered if there is sufficient demand. This is reliant on the belief of the British engineer/ bike enthusiast wanting a quality product & service within the shores of our green and promised land.

[yorkshireracer]

Hi guys, just skimming through and saw this. I'm over in New Zealand running a bike restoration and specials building business.
I' ve just had similar issues with a Matchless i' ve just finished for a customer. He insisted on supplying the bits and I had trouble with virtually everything. Nuts and bolts that I had to mix and match, cables not fitting, even a twistgrip that was smaller at one end than the other and wouldn't fit. Everything was made in China / Asia and some of it was through owners club !!
I do agree that most bike riders are tight #rs#s, quiet happy to pay umpteen thousand for a new bike but want bits for bugger all. Don' t know what solution is ?
I' m looking at teaching myself sheetmetal work (I'm ex aircraft fitter) as it IS a dying art. 

[mf-zh]

Hi Sub-Sonic

I am interessted in a alloy tank for a bsa goldstar scrambler. the one on your picture looks just about right.
A few days ago I send you a message. Did you get it or can you give me your direct email, so we can communicate outside of this forum.

Kind regards

Mike

[wetdog]

bsa goldstar scrambler.........................this is one of the few alloy tanks that is easy to get , im sure these are being made over here already , or is it the small catalina tank your after ? the steel one http://www.burtonbikebits.net/Tanks.htm